Dino - Synthetic - Cheep house Brands - Branded, Castrol, Valvoline, etc.,etc.,etc.,etc..............
Can someone show me DOCUMENTED proof that ANY brand of oil "WENT BAD" and
caused some type of catastrophic failure..................???????
ANYBODY ??????
OK, in the meantime, Happy Easter......I have to go check to see if .......
........ my Bunny is turning to chocolate,
.........my chicken is laying colored eggs,
.........and how the pig is doing in the oven.......! !
.
If my reply sounds offensive, TAKE IT AS HUMOR !! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA !!
.
...'77 280 ZEE-EEK.....If it's got Wheels.....It's gonna Cost Ya ! !

Happy Easter to you too.
Wife and kids are in AZ at a wedding. It's just not the same with everone gone. No eggs to hunt and no one waking me up real early.
On the other hand maybe I'll have time to work on the car later.
They'll be home by Tuesday. All will be good again.
original owner 1978 280Z
1977 project car

Search the archives of litigation between Ford Motor Company and Atlantic Richfield Co. back in the late 70's or early 80's.
Arco Graphite (curious, what ever happend to that superior compounding of colloidal graphite---a miracle oil meant to solve all startup ills?) had a tendency to go to Jello and not pump into the engine AT ALL. The Arco people sent lab technicians out to slice a cube of solidified "oil" from a removed pan of a FMC Product in for major overhaul due to catastrophic failure (running the engine without oil pressure will do that)...
He proceeded to take the cube of "oil" put it in a beaker, warm it to "operating temperature" of 180 degrees F, just below which the cube liquified, and flowed again. Their contention was "it flows at operating temperature, there is nothing wrong with our oil, the failure is FMC's problem"...
When you have fleet operators with THOUSANDS of trucks going for a 1% fuel efficency boost to save money, and start having failures of the bottom ends of the fleet, SOMEONE will have to pay the warranty...And Arco did all they could to try and DUCK that responsibility...
And curiously, when was the last time you saw a can of Arco Graphite on the store shelves ANYWHERE?
I can put you in contact with the FMC Regional Consumer Affairs Manager who was detailed for appearances in the court case.
The documents are out there...
And that's just ONE case.
I can show another NEAR MISS regarding another major brand of oil that was a supposed miracle oil, and only because we took WEEKLY analysis samples did we catch a DANGEROUSLY FAST acidification of their oil. Had we done a quarterly monitoring as the oil manufacturer told us to (and which their technical support department assured us was "overkill for this product"), we would have had severe bearing etching and bottom end failure within TWO WEEKS of filling our crankcases with their oil.
I will not reveal the brand or oil type in a public forum, but you can e-mail me and I will discuss exactly what happened.
So there is TWO cases. Why do you ask?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Apr 16, 7:49am)

I prefer Valvoline or Mobil 1 :)
I've read negative things about Penzzoil and a couple other companies that have parafin in their oils...pretty much candle wax. I think also Quaker State does it, but you can read the label on the bottle and find out for yourself which brands do and don't. I've read that is mucho malo but it doesn't affect me, because I always use Valvoline or Mobil 1.

Uh, Parrafin is derived from Crude Oil. Having parrafin in the oil is not necessarily a bad thing...
It's PART of the crude when it comes out of the ground, it's not something they add!
That's just like someone saying (back in the day) Unleaded Gas is More Expensive because they have to remove the Lead.... Er, there was a time when unleaded was CHEAPER than Leaded, then it mysteriously changed.... They started charging you more to NOT put lead in the fuel....
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Well I guess if you ever had to work on your car in the dark and the lights are out, and you use Penzzoil or Quaker State, you could just pull your oil filler cap, stick a wick down in your valve cover and light it so you'll be able to see :-D

Was the first case dealing with and segmented to diesel engines?
I can't remember seeing Arco Graphite anywhere, but since you mentioned it, a quick survey indicates some people are still using it, but it is not recommended for diesel.....................?
Would you have called the second case a result of oil breakdown ...or...
contamination problems?? ....
and was this "miracle oil" available to the general public for the sedan?
And what was the "miracle"?
....and in regards to that case (#2) are you telling me that the oil has been taken off the market because it's no good, or simply that it was not right for the particular application?
What I'm asking, (the original question) probably should have been a little more specific from the standpoint that there are about 20 - 25 brands of oil on the shelf, (not-withstanding weights) and, as mentioned on the other post, some people are for or against particular brands, primarily because, "I've always used it" , "My father used it" "It has a nice bottle" etc.,etc.
MATT300Z indicates he's "heard" bad things about the "P" brand, but there are people that swear by it.........and "hearing" bad things doesn't mean slop if there is no documentation that the product is, in fact, bad.
At which case, I'm sure that the "P" company would either be in court.........
or taking the bottles off the shelves..............Hmmmmmmmm (shrug shoulders here)
My contention is that (for the general motoring public) ANY oil, (Oooops, lets make that ANY brand, not to confuse weights) would be perfectly satisfactory in your family sedan...........and information is very slim as to what the difference is between Brand A and Brand Z other than the stated "additives" .
For all I know, the latest round of 5000 mile stuff, or "high mileage" if you must, contains the dreaded graphite that you mention........
.
If my reply sounds offensive, TAKE IT AS HUMOR !! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA !!
.
...'77 280 ZEE-EEK.....If it's got Wheels.....It's gonna Cost Ya ! !
Post Edited (Apr 16, 4:55pm)

If you religiously change your oil and filter every 3K miles, than any oil is good. Hell My Dad and I use Wal MArt SuperTech Stuff And consistently get 250K miles out of Japanese cars.... No complaints here.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Red 83 280zx 2+2
83 280zx Coupe SOLD
1st post 11/13/04

Unless your're talking about exotic racing engines or somesuch application, the considerable time and babble spent on picking an oil (brand) is moot. ! ! !
.
If my reply sounds offensive, TAKE IT AS HUMOR !! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA !!
.
...'77 280 ZEE-EEK.....If it's got Wheels.....It's gonna Cost Ya ! !

........when you're going to buy oil, remember this from an oil GURU....
"Oil that meets ACEA A5, MB 229.3/229.5, VW 503.00/503.01 ratings will hold up much better than oil that fails to meet these ratings."
Now I'm sure that will show up on the back of the oil bottle....................
MUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.
If my reply sounds offensive, TAKE IT AS HUMOR !! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA !!
.
...'77 280 ZEE-EEK.....If it's got Wheels.....It's gonna Cost Ya ! !

If your runnin Valvoline...someone will say how bad an experience they had with Valvoline..your runnin Pennzoil...someone will say how bad an experience they had with Pennzoil....your runnin Quaker State...someone will say how bad an experience they had with Quaker State....never fails...lol I think people just like to try and make other people feel bad....
1976 280z 2+2 - Risen from the dead - garaged since 1988. Pallnet Fuel Rail and guage - ES rack and front bushings - 260Z 4Speed - Arizona Z Car Clutch - H4 Lights - Lots more to come...

In Case 1, it was on 460CID Gasoline Engines in Truck Service. Diesels usually didn't have a problem (especially the heavy line stuff) simply because they weren't shut down. To my knowledge Arco Graphite is not manufactured and was removed from the market.
In Case 2, it again was dealing with non-diesels, and the oil was specifically formulated for the service the engines were placed into, with a different additive package to "lengthen time between change intervals". Basically they added a non-phosphorous additive package to allow for more acidification absorption, and it failed miserably. We reverted to their STANDARD product which we had been using satisfactorily for over 10 years and just changed it with increasing frequency as, of course, the new oil came at a premium price compared to the standard stuff we bought from them! They went back with the results from our tests, and re-designed the additive package from our results, but "the hell you say?" was the answer I gave them when they came back wanting to EXPERIMENT in my fleet again! Someone is using it, I'm sure, but I'll stick with their standard product and just change the oil more often.
I would never go so far as to say "any oil"---the qualification I would make is that "Oil with the current S- or C- Grading on the can is good enough"
When they first started applying oil grades, only Mil-Specs were available, I would not use an MS-Rated oil now unless it was accompanied by documentation that it meets SF/CG or whatever the current grading certification is... The S- Grading is for Gasoline engines, and the C-Grading is for Diesels. Some times the standards call for different things but usually the oil manufacturers will surpass the standards easily.
Unless you are a fan of re-refined oil and DEMAND to have "authentic" stuff in your 1950 Packard, stay away from re-refined SA grade oils. They are severely depleted---fine for a lawnmower, but not much else!
As for branding, there IS a difference! Some additive packages will cause oxidation well before others, but usually only when dealing with low-cost cheap oils without any real branding. "Quaker Maid" comes readily to mind. I know READING is not a strong point for many here, but actually reading the labels of the oil will tell you a LOT about what is in them, and what severity of duty they can handle. Additive packages can be formulated to combat many different things, anti-wear anti piston scuffing, acidification, oxidation.... these are botique oils that aren't available in the mainstream...you have to LOOK for them but they are out there. In the USA most of the oil (and hence our lack of selection when it comes to motoring oils for the street) are usually graded through the S- and C- Grading system so if it has those grades, it will meet GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS---if you want MORE SPECIFIC coverage (like insurance) then you usually go to the botique oils. Problem is a botique oil may have so much of one additive or another it conflicts with "limits" put on them through the grading systems and then "will not pass the grade"---while it doesn't technically meet the specification it can perform just as well. API is usually pretty good about clarification of standards and they put "meet or exceed" standards in place (the best kind to have, as opposed to minimum specifications---we all know what that leads to!) Just in some cases an oil with a load of phosphorous may not meet the ash content specification of the oil, and therefore not get an S- or C- Grading, but will have massive acidification resistance. If you run cheap high-sulfur gasoline or diesel, acidification is a concern, so you may want to consider it...but I'm digressing!
Oil DOES fail, but usually not in vehicles---there simply isn't enough stress and the oil change intervals are so stupidly overkilled because of slacker joe who doesn't read his owner's manual that you really have to screw something up (Like Arco did in the compounding of the "colloidal graphite") to kill an engine.
As long as it meets the specifications, you should be fine, use it. I just wouldn't say "ALL" oils. They have to have the API S or C grading equivalent to what your engine manufacturer recomends. And changing oil brands midstream is NOT a good idea---things can slough off the engine internal parts, clog filters, bad sh*t, Maynard! Once you have run an oil for 50K miles, it's probably unwise to change (specifically mineral-based oils, but synthetics can also polymerize and do bad things as well!)
Long and short of it: if it isn't broken, don't fix it, Stay the course, Thousand Points of Oil, Don't Change it, Wouldn't Be Prudent...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

There ARE considerations, changing brands DOES require forethought and knowledge of what the prior oil compounding was like.
Generally IF THEY MEET AN S- or C- Grading, the oil will be fine.
I would NEVER say "ANY OIL"---obviously you guys have never been exposed to "Quaker-Maid" or "Pensoil"....curiously they are in packaging very similar to other oils that have names SIMILAR, but are RE-REFINED oils and have absolutely no additive packages left in them, and in many cases (in the case of Quaker Maid, Specifically) only had an MS-Rating------that is fine for a 1950 Packard, but that oil will not stand up to the stresses of a Honda S2000 at 7500+ rpms requiring SH Grade oil for viscosity breakdown!
This goes along with "Toyuda" oil filters, "AG Delgo", and any "Motercraft" branded parts.
You guys laugh, but they are out there! It DOES pay to actually READ the boxes sometimes!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

The Mercedes and VW specifications are particularly stringent, but they are used primarily in Europe where there is no subscription to the API grading System of S- and C- Grading.
If you actually read the backs of oil or get the MSDS or Product Cut-Sheet from the oil distributor you will find in many cases it does enumerate something like "Meets or Exceeds all Engine Manufacturers Specifications, API SH/CE Grades" on the cut sheet it will usually then go on to list, specifically each specification it meets/exceeds.
On the back of the can is usually just the "exceeds manufacturer's specifications"...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

"This goes along with "Toyuda" oil filters, "AG Delgo", and any "Motercraft" branded parts.
You guys laugh, but they are out there! It DOES pay to actually READ the boxes sometimes!"
I've never seen these name brand copies, what store chain sells them? Thats pretty sad trickery but your right I bet it does catch a lot of people.
I just run Castrol 10w30 winter and 10w40 summer with motorcraft FL1A filter. Nothing fancy here and they seem to just never die!
Matt

Great info here if you really want to read about discuss oils and such. There is a forum as well.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

I actually have a can of this on my shelf in the garage, UNOPENED! I can prove this too! LOL! A buddy of mine gave it to me since he didn't want it and it was in his garage.
Dave
12/70 240Z, L-28, flat-tops, N-42 head, N-33 intake, MSA 10-2002 cam, ZX ignition, early 5-speed, R-180,4:11 gears, 903 Blue paint.

Come from Convienience Stores like 7-11 where there isn't a Gas Station attached. If they have one, generally they have Citgo Products.
But smaller convienience type stores in larger cities have all sorts of crap imitations on the shelves, right next to good stuff.
I watched a powerpoint from Toyota where an offshore company had knocked off their packaging and was selling "Toyoda" filters---which is a BIG Copyright violation being "Toyoda" is actually a supplier company for Toyota!!! Anyway, that oil filter had been cut away to show some string wrapped around an ORANGE JUICE CAN with holes poked in it (looked like someone used a NAIL to poke the holes, really jaggedy!) for oil flow. Epoxy was holding the stuff inside together, and there was no relief valve.
Sometimes even DEALERS will take OLD boxes, and stick GENERIC parts in them and restock their own shelves, reselling the parts at full list and getting enormous profits in the meantime. When the engine fails and the customer complains "because they used original XYZ Company Parts Exclusively" this is usually when stuff like this shows up.
But yeah, there are all sorts of crappy lookalikes, you just have to keep your eyes open and know what the trademarks looks like. The Motorcraft boxes are particularly interesting because I have seen several variations of them with the name brand very small on the box, but at first glance the stuff LOOKS like a Motorcraft Part!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

BTW anyone else use FL1A Motorcraft oil filters on their Z?
Since I have a 302 in my Tbird I found out long ago that they were the same size and have used them ever since on my Z.
-----------------------------------------
12.804 @ 107.26 mph on crappy street tires with Dual SU Powered 2.9L Stroker!
ZCAR.COM member since Aug 1998
Post Edited (Apr 18, 9:28pm)

I thought you left!
Recently, many of my posts have been getting expunged. I know how you felt...
http://pcdevils.com/flashme.php?swf=/media/flash/wp_game_border_patrol.swf
What the hell, I'll hide it here! Muahahahaha!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Apr 19, 12:57pm)

I'll have to check that out Tony at some of the local quick stops. I've never bought supplies at those places. I have seen fake motorcraft parts though and many variations on the box's.
Probably the worst I've seen is the factory repackaging. I ordered new ball joints from my local nissan dealer. They both came in the same factory boxes. One was factory the other was the autozone model, part # and everything. I was suprised that a dealership would do this, now I know why he said he had one in stock and could get the other quickly!
Hey Norm, glad to hear from you. Between my stang and the Z's I just buy a box of the motorcraft filters at a time. Have you been to the track lately?
Matt

I haven't actually BOUGHT any of those parts! I notice the boxes and shake my head. If my kid is with me it becomes a "learning experience"
Regarding rebranded generics in Factory Boxes, when you see stuff like that REPORT IT TO THE DISTRICT CONSUMER AFFAIRS MANAGER!
Or at the very least, blackmail the dealership into giving you the reboxed part for FREE lest you do the above! It is copyright infringement, and FRAUD!
I get sick and tired of distributors doing that crap! I have to deal with it all the time. We supply a part and are liable for warranty on it, then a distributor sells them a "generic" which may or may not be equivalent, telling an unsuspecting customer it's a factory part, and then I get called in on the warranty when something fails and everybody is upset because I have to deny the claim because he bought some cheap part that wasn't compatible....
Suppliers are partially to blame, lots of times parts that are rejected by OEM Q.C. Checks make it to the "mass marketers" for reselling as 'generics'.
I just bought a tailgate latch for my wife's Frontier--Nissan wanted $64 for the "assembly"---got it form JC Whitney for $16, so I bought two. Like in your case, one came with only the JCW P/N tag on the bag, the OTHER one had JCW & the Nissan parts identifier tag on it! Someone at Johnson Controls or whomever supplies the truck plant in Smyrna is selling overstock to whomever buys it! Not a bad deal for the informed consumer, but if a DEALER starts buying from that non-official parts source and then selling it as "OEM" it's fraud.
I digress...
But yeah, keep your eyes peeled, there is lots of stuff out there that is funny as hell! There was a yellow-and-red oil brand that featured a cracked liberty-bell and was called "Philoil", when you looked at the can my mind read it as "Penzoil" because of the trademark-infringing (imo) colors and design, but something in my head said "that's not right" and I looked again. Started laughing out loud. Said clearly on the can "Re-Refined from collected base stocks of premium oils---not suitable for use in automotive applications" I guess it was for oiling hinges and maybe lawn mowers. But that really cracked me up. That was at some podunk gas station in the sticks of southern Michigan about 10-15 years ago.
Funny Stuff! LOL
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

........If everybody sticks to the API ratings, it won't make any difference
what BRAND you use as long as it's compatible with recommendations
?????????????
Click for API rating
.
If my reply sounds offensive, TAKE IT AS HUMOR !! MUUUUHAHAHAHAHA !!
.
...'77 280 ZEE-EEK.....If it's got Wheels.....It's gonna Cost Ya ! !