Not that i like or even care about NASCAR but what does everyone think of the new Camry in the Nextel Cup and Busch Series? I think it would be funny to see them kick the big 3's collective asses muahahah!
http://www.toyota.com/motorsports/nextel/reveal.html
Edit: Misposted in Tech...moved here
L28+megasquirt+turbo=Huge sh!t eating grin (or at least thats what im hoping)

Great Idea!!.. Its about time imports take over NASCAR..muhahahaah!!
89'300zx-Carputer,Black,17's,digital,5spd,My Baby:D
90' TTZ!-UR Pully,seri2 PTU, R34 Brakes,HKS dual's,JW Intake&POP,PRofec B Spec2,Tokyo Rad,etc.
92' Civic- B16,Turbo,StandAlone FS,Programed,All the go!
95' Mitsu Turbo AWD,T3/4 CONV.**12 SEC CAR!!

Toyota sucks
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

WHAT ARE YOU INSANE!!!!
Toyota Rocks,They make the most reliable cars on this planet you jackass!!!
89'300zx-Carputer,Black,17's,digital,5spd,My Baby:D
90' TTZ!-UR Pully,seri2 PTU, R34 Brakes,HKS dual's,JW Intake&POP,PRofec B Spec2,Tokyo Rad,etc.
92' Civic- B16,Turbo,StandAlone FS,Programed,All the go!
95' Mitsu Turbo AWD,T3/4 CONV.**12 SEC CAR!!

As someone who has done a little racing on the short dirt tracks in the Midwest and the Southeast back during the politically incorrect days of Winston Racing I can tell you there are only two rules. (1) Ya’ll all are welcome to the dance. (2) You run what you brung.
WELCOME TOYOTA! And Welcome back Dodge! Where have you been old buddy?

> Toyota Rocks,They make the most reliable cars on this planet you jackass!!!
Matter of opinion there... If you saw the stupid idiot ricers who drive them around here in Australia you'd understand.
Oh I just noticed you have a Civic and Mitsubishi, we're not going to agree on anything in that case. Haha...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Feb 18, 7:41pm)

ITS A FACT!!
From the Cressida to the Camry!!! Obviously you've never owned one...
My camry is the only car i've seen that had 600kms on the odo and never needed a timing belt change..i acuqired it at 200km and only spent $1,700 throughout my 3 year ownership
89'300zx-Carputer,Black,17's,digital,5spd,My Baby:D
90' TTZ!-UR Pully,seri2 PTU, R34 Brakes,HKS dual's,JW Intake&POP,PRofec B Spec2,Tokyo Rad,etc.
92' Civic- B16,Turbo,StandAlone FS,Programed,All the go!
95' Mitsu Turbo AWD,T3/4 CONV.**12 SEC CAR!!

Camry's are family cars, at least here anyway... You see some getting around with bodykits and other bs and they look just plain stupid regardless of how reilable they are.
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

http://www.ricetoyota.com/
Haha, there's a dealership which is actually called that... Funny :P
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

Obviously you've never seen Altimas, Maximas, or Sentras being riced as well. Closed minded, brand loyal jackasses like you are what scares people who might be considering getting into the Z world away.
Toyota makes good cars, they make good motors. I own a Mitsubishi as well as 2 Zs, you gonna say I'm stupid and don't know what I'm talking about too?

Bring back the 98 Supra's and put them in the damn Nascar circuit!

Hey fanboys, get a life! The topic was what YOU as in what I thought about toyota's. I am entitled to my opinion, damn nazis...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Feb 18, 8:13pm)

Toyota is getting into the biggest racing leauge in the US. Will it help Toyota's reputation of making boring cars? No. But atleast we'll get to see a front engine RWD car with a toyota badge again.
But it will be intresting to see what all the redneck nascar fans have to say about it. I've already heard some pearl harbor refrences from a driver, and I'm willing to be the word 'riceburner' is going to be used a lot more.
---
Justin T
72 240Z L28, 5-speed
77 280Z 5-speed (t-boned 8-25-04)
80 280ZX automatic(retired)

Oh becareful, having your own opinion is dangerous around here if it's not the same as some of these fanboys...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

No issues with toyota being in craftsmen and 3 cars including a waltrip and redbullhave already signed up for it so i see no issues, my redneck suite mate now he has issues. Then again i dont care about nascar watch only for the wrecks and cheer for gordon cause all the rednecks hate him
1990na 2+2 5spd.(sold,10/09/05)
If you can't trust a Spanish used car dealer with an English sir name using a Cameroon e-mail account, who can you trust?

OK, I guess I qualify as a redneck NASCAR fan that waits all Winter long for this weekend and Daytona speedweeks.
Toyota will enter a "Camry" next year in the Nextel cup, and actually run a few experimental races this year. In 2007, the body templates for all makes/models will be identical, so there will be no bitching, and moaning about one brand being more aerodynamically suited than another.
The motor in the "Camry" will be a Chevrolet derivitive, that won't have much to do with anything Toyota. Toyota, the carmaker will have no involvement, or give backing money to any of the Toyota teams other than contingency prizes similar to Goodyear, or Sunoco.
So, if you want to be thrilled about a chevy motored, IROC bodied, Toyota stickered, race car whooping on the established, factory backed teams......go ahead and cheer, but it won't happen.

Just what under the fiberglass body of what might pass for a camry is anything even close to a production vehicle? Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Toyota FG bodies on a tube frame chassis, so what.
And they don't even race in the rain, wussies................

I'm a Carolina Boy that grew up on NASCAR: I've been to many races. Its rather disheartening to me that the sport that I grew up with has turned its back on its roots: that is closing tracks such as Rockingham. Thing is that these days the cars are all basically the same with common templates and all.
Really what the sport has evolved into is an IROC race with different nameplates. Theres very little difference in makes and if any make would appear to have any advantage(or find one) the powers-that-be would negate that: they want them all to run nose-to-tail and unable to pull away from anyone for 400-500 miles. When Toyota comes in there will be no difference.
76', 4 Speed, CAI, 6 into 2 Headers
Of all the things I've lost in life I miss my mind the most.
Post Edited (Feb 18, 8:51pm)

"Oh I just noticed you have a Civic and Mitsubishi, we're not going to agree on anything in that case. Haha..."
So you are saying if we own a Honda or a Mitsu we are considered a ricer? And yes, i do have a 92 Civic four door that is completely stock and has 120K on it
'1996 Black NA 2+0

No, I am saying that I dont like them cars myself personally so I dont expect to agree with alot of things an owner of them cars has to say. It may come as a shock to some of you but this isn't Nazi Germany, we aren't all going to agree on what's good and what isn't and just because I dont like what you like doesn't give you the right to be a monkey on my back.
Get over it...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Feb 18, 9:06pm)

"Camry's are family cars"
Uh, yeah, what's your point?
What the hell is a Monte Carlo?
Or a Taurus?
Or whatever the hell else they thrash around the track in NASCAR?
They don't run Corvettes in NASCAR.
They don't run Monte Carlos in JGTC.
Family Cars run NASCAR, always have, always will. It's not a sports-car racing series.
Talk about missing the whole point of the post...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

"But atleast we'll get to see a front engine RWD car with a toyota badge again."
In that same vein, when was the last year NASCAR actually raced an AMERICAN BRAND with that layout available to regular consumers?
It's a "Nostalgia Series" in that respect. That's what they know how to set up, and they don't want to rock the boat, so that's what the cars become to run in the series, regardless of what the sell to the general public.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

I do believe the topic was what YOU as in what I think about it...
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project
Post Edited (Feb 18, 9:12pm)

Too bad they won't let Toytoa run with their V8 technology in their car.
Kinda like Nissan deciding to use the Titan 5.6L V8 in a Maxima or Infiniti (which is just as big as any of the domestic makes family sedans now...)
Bet you would hear howling about the "unfair advantage" of the Import Quad Cam V8's making 1100 HP and lapping the dinosaur pushrod motors that can only rev to 10Krpm...
Smokey, were he alive today, would be the one wrenching and developing the Nissan V8...At least that's what I like to think...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

"It may come as a shock to some of you but this isn't Nazi Germany, ... just because I dont like what you like doesn't give you the right to be a monkey on my back. "
Actually, because we aren't in Nazi Germany, it DOES give htem the right to be a monkey on your back. Go back and read the history books. Groupthink was a big part of the Nazis to get into power, but the people who thought differently actually left the country because the had the foresight to see what was happening and they didn't like it.
In a free society, you have the right to voice your opinion, as do others to disagree. You seem to not like the fact that people disagree with your comments. That is the price you have to pay for living in a free society. You have as much right to be an a$$hole as others have to call you one to your face!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Haha ok I'll pay that, fair point... It's just that some of the fanboys on here act like you just ate their lunch and are dating their mum just because you dont like their car.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand I think Bill_Cale has a fair point. I dont see how using a different bodyshell makes any difference if they're all running the same motor?
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

"In that same vein, when was the last year NASCAR actually raced an AMERICAN BRAND with that layout available to regular consumers?"
How about last year.

Oh no, Tony_D book length post coming up... lol
85' 300ZX NA
86' 300ZX Turbo
88' 300ZX Turbo
89' 300ZX Turbo
300ZX Turbo Project

running at 9500 to 9800 rpm for 4 to 5 hours.
Cup racing has its formula just like IRL, Champ, GTP, F1, etc. There's no need to get snooty about it.

True there is not much stock about stock cars anymore other than the hood, roof, and trunk deck line for the makes template check. The cars are now hand built from scratch, even the carcass is hand made for optimum aerodynamic efficiency and rigorously tested in wind tunnels. I have no problem with the modern tubular chassis as they offer a degree of safety that no production vehicle will ever match. These cars are built by racers for racing. They are not carbon copies of each other. Teams build different chassis for short, long, superspeedway, and road course tracks. Engine building, bodywork, suspension setup, engineering (where the engine is placed in the car, center of gravity, datum point, on and on) are some of the most closely guarded secretes out there. You don’t go out to Wallmart or MSA or whoever and order up some crap and bolt it on hoping someone won’t call rice, you make it yourself and you make it for a specific purpose – to kick some ass. I agree with Bill_Cale. When the yankee carpet bagging tards took the sport with big corporate money they gutted it of its true spirit but not it’s heritage. Political correctness and the damn restrictor plate have killed innovative big racing engine design that NASCAR brought us such as the hemi, 429cid, 440, and other goodies that most people think of when they refer to the muscle car period (60’s – 70’s). Gone are the days when Fireball Roberts comes flying into the pits to get a light for his camel because his zippo it out of fluid. But take heart Bill, Darlington is still the track too tuff to tame. No bump drafting now? WTF. Maybe they could just have a car show in the parking lot and deicide a winner on paint scheme. Why I never tried straight line racing: Almost anything will run wide open for 10 seconds – try 3 hours.

You see above where someone mentioned the return of Dodge.
It is the only manufacturer currently running a vehicle on the street that is races in the same configuration.
TILL LAST SEASON this was NOT the case, and made the whole show a sham!
So when American Manufacturers can run a FWD car in a spec configuration that is not available to the general public, they ceased to be "stock cars"...
Dodge changed that last season.
Wish the quad cam Toyota V8 was allowed.
Be we'll have not of that now! Will we?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Like I said, they only run to maybe 10K, and only make 800HP.
Quad Cam Four Valve V8 of 5.7Liters? Running 12K+.
I see 1100 hp, and EXCITEMENT when they go to Watkins Glen!
Then again, turning left AND right seems to bore most "real NASCAR" fans.
I'd watch more than Sonoma and Watkins Glen if it was offered. But the drivers WHINE so much about having to actually DRIVE the vehicles at these two tracks, I makes me disgusted that these overpaid babies get the adulation they get for what they do!
Nikki Lauda gets my adulation. Bernd Rossmeyer. Stirling Moss. The greats. The DRIVERS.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

omg how can you compare the 2 - you can not buy anythgin simular to a nascar car at you local dealer - sure you can buy the name but that dont mean **** + who the **** decided the charger was a 4 door car that still pisses me off
70 yay!
77 parts
81 compressed parts
86 compressed it handles
00 mercury cougar omg wtf : \ girl has to have something to drive
- owned
74.5 why did i sell you
81 1st car $425 found out s130s dont handle stock
82 good
84 BMW 325e omg never again
Post Edited (Feb 18, 10:21pm)

Nascar...It's a business....It's all about the bottom line....if they feel bringing in Toyota will bring in more fans and money then here they come....shoot they'd revive Yugo if there was a dollar to make...I'm from Carolina also and yes Nascar has lost it's roots... As far as The Big Three, imports and so on.....Each of the big three are completely in partnership, ownership or someway heavily involved with a "foreign car maker"....assembled in the USA.... Foreign and Domestic, I've had them all and always done regular maintenance and I've enjoyed every one of them....If you like it drive it....
1981zx na..auto..t-top...midnight snack for rust monster
03 Montero Sport AWD
04 Buick Rendezvous CXL...Family's gotta ride in something...

"who the **** decided the charger was a 4 door car that still pisses me off"
THE LAWYERS AND ACCOUNTING DEPARTMENTS!
THE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO GIVE PRICE BREAKS TO FOUR DOORS!
ERGO: THE LAWYERS AT INSURANCE COMPANIES! THE BEAN COUNTERS AT THE CAR COMPANIES! ALL COLLEGE EDUCATED AND WELL THOUGHT OUT ON AVOIDING PRODUCT LIABILITY PITFALLS IN THE LITIGIOUS AMERICAN MARKETS!
That's who!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

well i dont really think it matters because as tonyd said it is nastolgia because taurus monte carlo in nascar dont even have the same engines as the stock cars do they ALL HAVE TO LOOK THE SAME , weight and power have you guys ever seen what u need to be qualified in a nascar team race, nascar does lots of test sooo much so it not a toyota or nissan chev thing its simply a name brand on a car that has been totally transformed I dont even think they have the stock car frames!? my two coppers
71 240zT~soft top~swatisca rims~walbro 255 ~MBC~2.5"DP/3"ex~supra IC~summit Rad~~r200 3.54/cvs~RSX Seats~AM gauges My Auctions

Ah, litigious, good word.
1976 280Z
Draw-Through Turbo, 10 PSI, 4 Bbl Holley, E88, L28 (Flat), 10:1 CR, 5 Spd
1974 Corvette Stingray:
350, 400 Automatic, T-Tops, 8.5:1 CR, 78,000 Miles
1994 Acura Integra:
1.8L, 5 Spd, 189,000 and Counting!

I don't agree with you, but I'll say you win.
But I do find this statement from you ironic: "Like I said, they only run to maybe 10K, and only make 800HP." Only 10K rpm and only 800HP from an OHV pushrod, and you're not impressed.
Post Edited (Feb 19, 6:59am)

Oh, goodie.......
Now I can put NASCAR stickers on our Corolla.
The optomist has no brakes, the pessimist has no motor.
I need a good parts car.........

honda may az well join the nascar
97 Nissan Laurel, drift it up! New Zealand.

Well looking back when I was a kid and taking cars to Ascot to race, looking at the early days of racing, the people involved, the drivers and all.
I think the WHOLE thing is a waste of time. They have turned it into corporate America just spending money now!
Guys use to build cars, race them, and compete as to which car, which combination of running gear, suspension, and braking worked the best. THATS WHAT RACING USE TO BE ABOUT! GUYS BUILDING CARS THAT WOULD COMPETE WITH OTHER GUYS BUILDING CARS TO COMPETE!
Now we have drivers doing commercials, cars that are built like you said to specific dimentions and specifications.
Hell Toyota makes a front wheel drive Camry, do you think for one minute anyone in their right mind would ever try to run a camry in stock form that way HELL NO!
The sport is not about drivers and his buddies building a car to beat that other driver anymore, it's about the money and corporate america!
I think the assholes that run the sport now have ruined it all together. Drivers know nothing about what they drive, and most likely cant turn a wrench at all, corportae sponsering is the essence of the sport now, hell I would not be surprised if they decide to install GPS and driving controls in the cars, so all the driver does is sit there and let the computer drive the car now, hell maybe they can install a DVD player so he would not get bored and he could watch pulp fiction while the race is going!
The sport was all about competing, and that was the jist of it, so if a team came up with a better whatever and won then good for them, since when did it become you cant do this, or do that, hell why don't they just COMMISSION a company that builds all of the cars and lets the drivers pick out whick color they like the best. Total waste of time even putting that on the TV anymore in MY OPINION!
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

I miss Trans Am Another series down the tubes
That was a great series ... now it's like 2 or 3 guys racing each other
-Pete
1978 Z ATK F54-P79
Drink Sobe No Fear Gold
Tokico Illuminas, Poly bushings,Techno Tuning TC rods. Bad Dog frame rails. Toyota 4 piston calipers & power slot rotors. MSA 2.5” turbo exhaust & K&N cold air intake. H4’s

I just love hearing the mind set of "it's from Japan it's better" LOL!!!
If NASCAR wanted over head cam V8's running out there......there would be American overhead cammed V8's running (both GM and Ford). They are available just the same as anything from across the Pacific. NorthStar 32 valve V8's and Ford 4.6 Liter "overhead cam" V8's. You haven't considered what it would cost the teams to completely scrap their engine programs, retool, and develop a new engine. Now that would be a dandy way to squash the lesser funded teams now wouldn't it? Or how unfair it would be to let the Japanese teams race with one while requiring the American teams to run with push rod motors. Another dandy way to squash the sport. What's say we saddle these teams with a few more mil a year in engine costs? Toyota (or Nissan) can run like the rest of them if they want to play.
But then most folks haven't figured out that the only people racing in NASCAR are folks racing to the bank with the checkie...
Daytona 500 qualifying? What a joke....33 set places on the grid, 8 spots open on day one of qualifying??? That's not qualifying.
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C

specifically Cup racing, it would do you well to actually know what you're talking about. There are so many half-truths flying around, the last two being: drivers never turned a wrench, and Daytona 500 qualifying has the first 33 positions set.
Those who dislike Cup racing will continue to dismiss it while knowing nothing about it except their own opinions based on very limited exposure. Those who have been waiting since the Homestead race for the new season to begin the wait is over.

Ken Hawkins hits the nail on the head re: with Toyota's race to outspend the field. It happenned in the truck series and Penske and Roush have already come out and stated that they'd like Nascar to put a limit on what can be spent each year.
And 72n03Zs, it's a free country and like or dislike anything you want.
Having been able to drive 250 miles at The Glen last year with the pit crew help provided by TonyD, Ken Jones, and others just 4 days after Nascar ran there, I can admire Nascar drivers for their focus and commitment. But for me, I like cars and drivers who do more than take left turns, go up and down hills, actually have to shift gears, run in the rain, and at The Glen use the whole freaking course.
If Nascar could kick the "going around in a oval habit" maybe I'd watch or for that matter care what ever it is they do.

Was directly influenced by the F1 Turbo Days. That is when I was in "school" for mechanics, and that was the pinnacle of development.
1785HP from a turbocharged 1.5L engine.
THAT impresses me more than making the horsepower they make from such a monster of an engine.
The Porsche 917 Impressed me, 5.0L and 1100 hp.
When I found out during development the VG30 made 1100HP from 3.0 liters, I was VERY impressed, comparing the Porsche as a benchmark to that, making the SAME horsepower with LESS displacement.
And then, to find that IMSA mandated 26mm restrictors on the intake to the turbos to the VG, so it "only" made 750HP---though Steve Millen commented it helped boost torque and made the car much more driveable. And it dominated the series.
I CAN be impressed. But when you spend the time I have in Cosworth Engineering and Honeywell Engine Boosting Systems R&D lab, it raises the bar by what you consider "impressive".
I will give Nascar their due, they do one heluva job with the restrictor plate engines. The HP they get on THOSE engines is impressive, because no matter HOW they try to restrict the output, the eventually develop the ENGINEERING SKILLS to make more horseower from the same engine size, through an increasingly smaller and smaller hole!
But I am not impressed by a big engine breathing unrestricted and making such low horsepower numbers, no.
I'm not looking to "win", I just am not impressed by any "big engine" series where there are no real restrictions that require engineering expertise to work around. Hell, I'm not impressed by the F1 engines, sure, they turn 24,000 rpm (compare to NASCAR, 10K, making the SAME horsepower but with LARGER engine, follow?) and make 800HP from 3.0L, but the racing they produce is akin to NASCAR. No passing, no drive input to make much of a difference, and drivers that complain about actually having to DRIVE.
Watch "Grand Prix" or "LeMans" to see what racing WAS. What it has turned into does not impress me in the least. NO, not at all!
Maybe I'm turning into the old curmudgeon talking about hte good old days, but I liked the human element controlling the machine, not the other way around.
Ever drive a Winston West car on a superspeedway in traffic, or alone? It's somewhat bumpy if you have close traffic, but when you get out ther alone, up front, my dad could drive that car at 170+...
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

since the driver's there only go in a straight line. And just for a quarter mile. Right?

"Or how unfair it would be to let the Japanese teams race with one while requiring the American teams to run with push rod motors."
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Unfair? Life isn't fair. DODGE is the ONLY vehicle out there that runs the same engine in their street car, that they run on the track, EXCEPT that because it would probably be UNFAIR to the other teams because the Dodge teams run a HEMI, they gotta run a sepcification engine...
Yeah, "SPEC CHEVY"...
If I want to see spec racing, I can go to any SCCA Track any weekend wand watch the FORMULA V's! It's the SAME DAMN THING!
From a self-touted and self-promoted "top level motorsports" Series, I would expect something more than what I can get any weekend from guys running Formula V, Formula Ford, Spec Miata, Rental RX7's, etc etc etc...
It's overblown hype, and really doesn't impress me till the take to the streets at Sonoma and Watkins Glen. And then I get to hear how the driver's (save for a few) HATE those courses because "they are so demanding"... Waaah! Waaaah! I get a million+ a year to pilot a car around a circle and now they want me to actually DRIVE! Waaah! Waaaah!
Give me a break!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

but I would like to watch a 500 mile race at Daytona, Indy, Talledega, etc.... (one of the super-tracks) with todays technology cars and the restrictor plates removed. Oh yeah, no stupid rules! Set up the car any way you want, using any engine and chassis combo that is on the show room floor and lets turn em loose.
It would definitely separate the men from the boys!!!!!!!!!
There probably would not be 10 cars on the lead lap by mid race, you would need a few body bags and oh yeah, you would have to be drunk, wasted or insane to sit in the first 50 rows of the grandstrands. But it would be great for the spectators.
Would remind me of the scene from Men in Black when Tommy Lee Jones told Will to show him his skills. "You think you have skills? Go ahead son, show me your skills".
78 280Z Daily Driver
All original, Stock engine, Auto Trans w/factory A/C, 205,000 miles, new suspension and bushing kit, under primer and saving for a paint job.......
83 ZX w/T Tops, purchased 4-20-06, 122K miles, Son's restoration project

"If Nascar could kick the "going around in a oval habit" maybe I'd watch or for that matter care what ever it is they do."
They cull the "road races"---anybody remember RIVERSIDE 1988/1989?
I actually WENT to that last NASCAR Race with friends who had tickets that were stationed up at George AFB. A race for me involves going left, right, and elevation changes. Maybe the fans can't see the whole track from the grandstands. Maybe TV coverage is easier on an oval or Tri-Oval, but from a beer drinking standpoint, the ovals are very easy to keep you in your seat, swilling overpriced beer, and make it easy to follow the "action".....
God forbid you actually have to watch it and wonder what happend in the blind corner off the backside of the track. Turning to watch the jumbotron might make you dizzy, and fall out of your seat!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Good points all, Tony.
Given the formulas in place in Cup racing, the R&D guys do a good job. And the drivers appear to have to drive the cars. No traction control, no electronic aids, no massive ceramic brakes. Riding on direct actuated shocks and solid rear axles.
Oh, well. It's all still racing to me.

Let a top tier motorsports show go unrestricted like they did in the old days.
The stong will drive, and the strongest will survive.
Oh, I might loose my life, we better slow the cars down.
BUT WAIT, boo hoo, there is not passing, we are in big packs and nobody can pass, it's DANGEROUS! We need to do something....
(Rolls Eyes!)
Uncork Em for a few years, those with stones will win. Those without will withdraw and race the next weekend.
Then they raise the points value for the superspeedways to entice the stoneless back.
Easy.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Despise 1/4 mile racing. Boooooooring to watch on T/V.
Fun to be there just for the auditory exposure, but you can't tell who won many times till the board tells you.
EEH, why bother?
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

I belive that its the evolution of technology that both makes motorsports great, but its also hurting many forms of racing. Back in the days where people didnt know much about aerodynamics, tire technology was poor, and turbos were rarely used, racers had the opportunity to be innovative as there were fewer rules and restrictions. Some of these innovations turned out to be very good ones, certain cars became dominant, and increasing speeds raised safety concerns. Some examples of this are:
-Dominance of the Posche 917
-Ground effects in F1
-Turbos in F1
-Turbos in top fuel drag racing (Gale Banks)
-Group B rally racing
The reasulting rules and regs have caused racers to spend much more time and effort (read $$$$$$$$) to get around them, making racing a corporate spend-off. At this point there are soo many rules regarding car performance in every facet of motorsports, that most of the technology is going towards making the cars easier to drive. Meaning that the driver only moves his index finger to shift, and rarely needs to take his foot off the gas cause hes got traction control....the rest is done by some geek on a laptop.
I guess my point is that a human being can only drive a car - peddling, shifting, and steering - so fast around a race track, and the cars we are capable of building are soo far beyond that, that we must be cursed with restrictor plates, electronic driving aids, etc., just so the drivers dont kill themselves. Its an unfortunate inevitability.
L28+megasquirt+turbo=Huge sh!t eating grin (or at least thats what im hoping)

"Let a top tier motorsports show go unrestricted like they did in the old days.
The stong will drive, and the strongest will survive."
I fully agree Tony....alas this will probably never happen, i mean, god forbid the drivers actually have to slow down and work to control their cars so they dont crash and kill themselves! Thats crazy talk.
NASCAR is interesting in that respect because the huge pileups are undeniably part of the appeal of the sport, but they obviously dont want drivers to be killed all the time....so make the cars fast enough, but safe enough that they can crash in spectacular fashion, and come back the next week to do the same.
L28+megasquirt+turbo=Huge sh!t eating grin (or at least thats what im hoping)

Yup....Toyota can do what Dodge is doing or they can go home and eat rice....NASCAR doesn't need them.....or yahoos like us who don't even like the sport.
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C

I don't mean to post a dead horse to death here but Nascar must need Toyota (or think they do) or they won't have let them in the truck series and now into Nascar itself.
When Nascar gets written about regularly in the New York Times, financial people notice. The proposed track on Staten Island would open the market to over 20 million people in a 150 mile radius. In today's NYTs and the Boston Globe they reported on the hope Nascar has to diversify their fan base. Maybe they believe Toyota will help them do that.

"I guess my point is that a human being can only drive a car - peddling, shifting, and steering - so fast around a race track, and the cars we are capable of building are soo far beyond that, that we must be cursed with restrictor plates, electronic driving aids, etc., just so the drivers dont kill themselves. Its an unfortunate inevitability."
COULDN'T DISAGREE MORE!
Back in the day when Bernd Rossemeyer piloted the V16 AutoUnions around the Nurburgring, he had to saw at the wheel and hold a car on the track at 200mph with bycicle tires. When he went off-course at speed, did he lift? NO! He kept into it and DROVE the behemoth between two Oak Trees by the side of the course. When the engineers went back to measure the distance between the trees, and it was 2" wider than the car's width at the wheel hubs!
Bernd had the choice, keep the hammer down, and win. Or lift and loose.
TODAY SHOULD BE NO DIFFERENT!
The BEST DRIVER will use the technology to best advantage. I say take traction control out of the equation, use a real shifter, put the HUMAN ELEMENT back into the race. It will only make for a better show, and make for a sorting ground for the drivers.
The Porsche 917 was a BEAR to drive. Drivers who ran it at Lemans said you flatfooted it in a turn and prayed you were pointed in the right direction when the boost hit. What does that take? BALLS!
Today, such manners in a vehicle would be decried, and the drivers would walk away. I say LET 'EM!
And therein lies the difference of the truly great drivers: Those who conquer not only the course, but the machine as well. No matter what the conditions.
The show that gives me that, I will watch.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"
Post Edited (Feb 19, 6:33pm)

"NASCAR is interesting in that respect because the huge pileups are undeniably part of the appeal of the sport, but they obviously dont want drivers to be killed all the time....so make the cars fast enough, but safe enough that they can crash in spectacular fashion, and come back the next week to do the same."
Yeah, that is probably right. I mean, driver safety is important, but like the F1 Fiasco last year involving tires the pussies wouldn't drive because they didin't think they would be able to win.
That is just wrong, and indicative of the kind of racing driver they cultivate these days.
I watch those old LeMans films, and am in awe of the drivers. Having to control what they did just makes me sit back in awe.
Especially the pre-war GP Cars. The speeds they ran at at some of the high speed tracks, and even the Ring are comparable with what they do today. They did it using nothing of the technology we use today.
Who was the better "DRIVER"?
I know where I would place my vote!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Against my better judgement I watched the Daytona 500 and only really enjoyed watching Tony Stewart drive. I watched him run 2 or 3 races at Watkins Glen in cluding a sports car race and was duly impressed by his skill, a great driver, there aren't may of them in NASCAR considering the level of hype they produce.
I miss Grassroots stuff where the team met in someone's garage and every now and then, Joe didn't show up to work because he got killed weekend racing. Every morning at 7 I watch Legends of Motorsports to see a better era in racing.
If you think Toyota going NASCAR is nuts, what's going to be posted here when Nissan goes NASCAR and fields a Maxima or Altima?
I'm ready for some better sponsors too. I'm tired of hearing about the "M&M's Chevy" or the "Viagra Ford"...I want to hear a male racer brag about the performance of the "Kotex Pontiac" and see the racecam on top of the #69 "Tampax Chevy" blazing down the track with a huge "Tampax" emblazoned on the hood...now that's entertainment.
Heavily medicated for your protection.