I was working on the car all day for the most part and it seemed to be in order, good power and running well.
I noticed the intake had some oil in it because I pulled the TB to do some mods to correct the idle and bypass air to get it to idle @ the rpm's I wanted.
So I started checking the PCV system to make sure the seperation tank and all that stuff was working correctly.
Turns out while I was checking the system I took the oil cap off and there was an excessive amount of smoke coming from the filler hole. I started the engine and the thing was puffing a good amount of smoke, NOT GOOD, NOT GOOD AT ALL!
I did some more checks of the PCV system and all seemed in order.
I decided to pull the plugs and check them out and do a compression test. I knew right away there was something wrong when I took a look at the plug, oil all over it, NOT GOOD AT ALL.
I do the compression test to #1 and the compression was 60psi. VERY BAD.
So here is what I got across the engine:
#1 60psi
#2 150psi
#3 150psi
#4 90psi
#5 150psi
#6 90psi
In light of the fact the oil filler cap is puffing so much smoke, it is clear the bottom end is toast. I dont really know what happened at this point. I think what may have happened was since the injectors wer all over the place for flow numbers the air/fule ratios in those cylinders were screwed and toasted the pistons, or the rings/lands. The wide band would not reflect that unfortunately since the system is a batch fire configuration, and the sensor is at the output of the turbo. I really had no way of determining an individual cylinder Air/fuel ratio.
So it looks like I am going to miss the MSA show still yet another year.
The part that sucks is that the car is running strong, it pulls hard under boost and really shows no sign that there is anything wrong except for the smoke through the oil filler cap, and the low compression readings.
So I guess I get to totally tear it down again this time, what a pain in the a$$.
I am really not that impressed with the whole situation. Thoughts of just getting rid of the car have crossed my mind. Just when I thought this car was finally ready to go this happens. The thing that reall sucks is that if I had installed the six probe EGT gauge I wanted to install a while ago, I would have been able to catch an excessive exhaust temp problem and fixed the problem BEFORE I blew out the bottom end of my frickin engine.
So hell with it for now, I'm going to get some dinner.
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

Damn...
1990 2+2 N/A
SHIFT_style

That stock Intake Manifold to blame, I'm convinced of it!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

I have t agree with Tony D. I think you list a bunch of symptoms and the real disease is the intake.
1981 280ZX Turbo
60,000 original miles
Still OEM (except for tires, fluids, and filters or course)
Swartz Creek, Michigan
It's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and I'm wearing milk bone underpants.

I don't know, right now I don't even want to look at the car. I thought Finally this thing is going to be completed, but no now lets redo the bottom end.
The new cylinder head is going to have to be resurfaced again. After three times on the head studs they should be replaced I believe, I will check with ARP on that one. In light of the fact that the problem is obviously with the pistons/rings I should have the block redone and the pistons replaced unless for some reason all that will be needed are the pistons and rings, and then then wrist pins will have to be done again, They are special 22mm premium pins Dave Robello made specifically for my build, and that gets into the bearings on the rods and fitting new pins in the old bearings, lets see, then the road and main bearings possibly. And finally the kicker, the block. I cant bore the block, so the best I can do is a hone and hope for the best.
So all totaled I'm looking at about 2-3K to get the bottom end done again, and then I am going to have to deal with the builder, and the last time that took 11 months to have the work completed.
I will call around tomorrow and see what is up, but needless to say, I am not all that happy about thwe whole thing. Figures!
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

You are goin' WAAAAY overboard with this las post.
This is nothing more than a refresh! Just like on any race motor.
On the Bonneville Car, we have had the Head on and off, and on and off too many times to count on those ARP studs.
The mains and rods don't even have 15K miles on them, plastigauge and visually inspect, but my bet is that they are FINE as long as they were high-load Nissan Stockers, or Childs and Albert units.
22mm is standard build per Nissan "How To Modify" book. Doubt the pins are bad, or that the bushings have ANY measurable wear at all.
Rings, Pistons, yeah, probably. And I would personally do all six, and not chance it with the other three that aren't showing problems. Bet if you buy a spotchek kit from McMaster you will find cracked ring lands on the remaining cylinders.
Be glad you restricted the PCV! Had you not take that step last go on the remodification you would have FLOODED the intake with the blowby, and probably holed all six!
This really is not that big a deal, the bores were round the last time you had the head off, I will lay money a quick deglaze and new rings and pistons will be all that is required.
As I recall, the rings were not sealing all that well yet anyway.
This happens all the time on L-Engines in racing, and you deglaze, stick in the new parts, and go from there.
What I would do I check and see if there was a bobweight list done when they balanced it before. The ONLY way I would remove the crank would be to send it to Electronic Balancing off Spring Street by the Long Beach Airport to have the pistons, rods, flywheel and clutch cover balanced as a unit.
Now, as for the valve reliefs and piston configuration just make sure JE has the correct build and maybe open the valve relief clearances a bit---if the head thickness allows for it. It would suck if the valves kissed the pistons and did this, cause we never did hear any detonation...
It's not that big a deal that you have to replace every freakin' thing on the bottom end. This is a piston problem, and your block is fine!
Sh*t, we had the piston pins WALK and they only scored the block .080", we STILL ran 173+ mph at Bonneville blowing by like a mutha!
Trust me, dude, I know "Puff Puff Puff"!
If we can assemble 9000rpm engines in Andys' Garage behind his house, and I can build turbo VW's in my 10X10 Shed, what you are doing is child's play with the garage you got!
I know the places to take this for all measurements locally, and to get the machine work done reasonably and FAST. Fret not, get it apart and see what went away.
Look at it this way, you can get those bumper brackets installed and free up some space on the front end of the car now!
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

tony, will you be my motivational speaker? :-P
stan
1972 240Z, L28, R200, MSD (fuel system rework)
1991 CRX SI, many many mods
1982 280ZXT (engine and wheels are staying, everything else is going to the junkyard)

412 Cu in 675Hp, $11,995 delivered
Reher-Morrison's Super Series 412 is sure to please the Small Block Chevrolet fans! If you don't want to or can't run a Big Block (or you're sick of your Nissan L motor boring a hole in your pocket), but still want consistency and reliability, this engine is for you!
At 4.185" bore and 3.750" stroke, this dyno tuned and tested engine produces 675 HP and 575 ft./lbs. of torque. That's enough horsepower to weight ratio to push a 1650 lb. dragster 8.0's and 163 mph.
With features like the Dart Little "M" cylinder block and Dart 230cc Pro 1 aluminum cylinder heads CNC ported by Reher-Morrison, this engine will provide winning service for hundreds of passes!!
Ken
'82ZX n/a 2+2
'02 Sportster XL1200C

Too bad its got a carburator.

that sucks!
80 280zx 3.2 liter F.I. Stroker with a 150 shot of NOS! Im getting close to the end of this journey but I'll be back with VG30 Turbo Power!

Sorry to hear this - you have gone too far to give up now though.
Just get the Bottom end rebuilt like Tony says. How can a stock intake manifold be to blame though? I am not quite sure why this has happened can you explain.
I didn't have a Clue??!!! Until I found Blue...
Blue's Z car tips -

As far as I can tell it was the injectors that caused the problem. I had the problem of going lean @ 5K to the point that the car fell flat on it's face. So after testing and trouble shooting the system and everything checked out, the last thing that could be the problem were the injectors.
I took them out and did find the screens were clogged with whatever. I cleaned them with brake cleaner and reinstalled them. The car ran much better, but it was still going lean at the upper rpm range. I decided to have them cleaned by R C Engineering and they were not flowing all that great for consistancy, in fact one was 40cc's shy of the rest.
So back to the problem. The O2 sensor is monitoring the exhaust at the collector of all of the exhaust(in the downpipe after the turbo) The O2 readings were not that bad until I got to the 5K range. What I believe was happening was that the dead cylinders were in fact running lean all of the time, but since I was monitoring the collection of all the exhaust gases, I was not getting accurate readings of the individual cylinder fuel mixtures.
Seeing Nissan, and the majority of the fuel controls are a batch fire system, the problem would not show itself very easily when all of the exhaust was collected through the turbo.
I basically burned up the pistons with a lean mixture. The 89 ECU for Nissan fires a batch configuration meaning three injectors and three injectors, then when the load conditions and rpm's get to a certin point the ECU then fires all six injectors.
The thing that sucks, is that the engine really did not ping all that much, a little and I would back off the throttle and it would stop. Although I did not like any pinging, with forged pistons you can get by with a little pinging provided you don't keep it there.
I am going to go ahead and fix it, but I am sure not happy about it in the least. I JUST got it running, and it was down for a year before that getting issues fixed and upgrades.
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

Keep the faith Jeff, we need you as our inspiration!! If it were easy, everyone would be putting down 100 hp per cylinder!!
Phil
1981 280zxt
5-speed conversion,3.9 R200,Eibach springs,Tokico struts,Energy Suspension,K&N CAI,AutoMeter A/F, Boost, Fuel Gauges,Cusco Strut Bar,Greddy B Spec II boost control,Jeffp 3in mandrel exhaust,Magnaflow,Spearco Cooler, HKS BOV, 10 psi

THe manifold reference is an inside joke.
Someone is a parrot and squwaks change the manifold every time the chance arises, hence: it's the manifold's fault.
Facetious=Fecal, BTW! LOL
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Well, little late now but why didnt you just check the plugs if you thought you were running lean in certain cylinders and rich in others? Woulda solved the wideband issue.
Currently parting out 1990 300zx TT.

<Well, little late now but why didnt you just check the plugs if you thought you were running lean in certain cylinders and rich in others? Woulda solved the wideband issue.>
When I first got the car running I thought it was running lean @ 5K, but it was running good below that. I chalked it up to a bad tune. I babied the car and got it down for tuning.
While I was having the car tuned everyone felt that it was a misfire issue. So I took the car home, did all of the testing. Built my own test fixture to test the high tension side of the coil with my oscope. What I found was that it was not misfiring. I then began my trouble shooting of the system. I did check the plugs and they were white, so I knew it was running lean. So I tested the ECU and swapped it out. Didn't fix the problem. This was a new ECU so I had no history on the unit I had to verify it's operation, and I did that by reconfiguring my old unit to work with the Ford MAF and simply installed the tuned eprom.
The next thing I had to check was the MAF. I had flow tested the unit about a year earlier and it was fine, but keep in mind I had the parts sitting around waiting to be installed, so since it was a year in between use, I had to reverify the part. I tested the MAF and it to was good. The fuel pressure was good, the ignition was replaced, and the coil and tested.
I verified the 6A MSD box to make sure it was not doing funky things to the ignition and it was not.
The last thing to test was the injectors, and there is only one way to test them, send them in and have them flow tested, which I did. It was then that I found out how screwed they were, and they were cleaned and repaired by R.C Engineering.
I installed them and the car ran good, but it was still leaning out in the higher rpm ranges. I was ready to take the car back down for tuning, but in the mean time I noticed the intake had oil in it. My first thought was that the PCV system I setup was not working correctly. I tested that system and it checked out. Then I checked the oil and it was lod, so I took the oil filler cap off and noticed there was smoke coming out of the filler hole. This was not good, that meant there was alot of blowby filling the crankcase with blowby. I started the engine with the cap off, and sure enough it was pressurizing the crankcase.
I knew then there were some serious problems with the pistons/rings to make that much pressure in the crankcase. I did a compression test and verified I toasted three cylinders.
I did all of the testing I could do with what I had, and I did not push the engine hard while I was testing it, but to get it to fail, I had to run it up to 5K rpm's to trouble shoot the system. The engine did not ping any to speak of, a little, but the teransition from a stoke mixture to totally lean was in about 25 rpm's it was good, and a little more rpm's it was totall lean. Just my luck, everyone got the problem wrong, and by that time I think the damage was done, and I think it was done on the dyno trying to figure out why it was misfiring. The engine acted like it was going into rev limiting, but it was not. So I believe the real damage was done on the dyno, and it took the trip home and what testing I did to finally toast the bottomend. It sucks, but I did everything I could have done to fix the problem, it was just a little to late. A day late and a dollar short and this time it cost me a bottomend. Well pistons anyway, and possibly a reworked brand new cylinder head to boot. So I have not been in the best of moods today. I started taking the engine apart cussing the whole time and shaking my head. I JUST GOT IT RUNNING DAMNIT! I am shooting to have it down by Friday and driving the block to Robello to have them do the rework, but I need to get it apart to inspect the cylinders to make sure they are good, otherwise I will have to bore it to 88.5mm to clean them up and get the new pistons. Total pain in the pocketbook and pain in the a$$.
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

When you clam[p that head down securely with ARP Studs, and then either O-Ring the block or use those metal head gaskets, if you detonate, there is only ONE place for that pressure to go: DOWN!
Had this car had a conventional head gasket, or the 'dreaded' Fel-Pro more than likely it would have blown straightaway.
Detonation breaks things, usually head gaskets. But if they are secure, the pistons are the next place to go---usually in the ring lands.
People Are Idiots, Just look around here and you will see!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
My brother from another mother calls himself "Willie D"

Well really this was not a detonation issue. The effect was the same, but in reality this was an excessive lean issue. The engine just ran out of fuel and as it got leaner it appeared to be detonation. The EGT's were the cause of the problem caused by trying to run the engine on air and lack of fuel.
But as you look at it the two ran hand in hand, as the temps rose to excessive levels what amount of fuel that did make it to the cylinder was ignited so I guess it's all in the way you look at it. Either way the effect was the same BOOM, blow the pistons out and the rings.
I started taking the engine down last night, oil every where, in the turbo inlet, in the PCV system, in the intake, total mess it has made. Oh well thats the brakes I guess. I will have it taken down tonight after work. I need to get a good look at the cylinders as soon as possible to get the pistons ordered. I just may be able to have it back together by MSA, and if not well thats the brakes again.
signed pseudotechnician view point, Sniper S^$ker, with girly arms : UCC 1-207

Jeff, when you get the software for the ecu your guessing and questions about the tune will be over. You'll be able to see exactly what the ecu is doing, datalog it, study it, modify and keep it safe.