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The Elise/Exige has no fuel filter?
Question:
It's been brought to my attention that the Elise/Exige has no fuel filter. I understand that it only has a sock-type strainer which is on the fuel pump, inside the gas tank. That seems insane to me. The fuel filter is a regular maintenance item on most cars, so what happens to all the junk that gets in the tank? It clogs the sock strainer and we loose fuel pressure as the miles tick by? Then we have to drop the gas tank to clean or replace it? Also, with all the vandilism that Elise/Exige owners have been seeing, and a non-locking gas cap, it seems like a disaster waiting to happen. Am I wrong about this, or is this the only fuel filtering that the Elise has? Does anyone agree that this is a dumb design? I understand that weight savings is important, but filtering the gas seems like it should take priority over the 1 or 2 pounds that a fuel filter and bracket would weigh. Am I the only one who is concerned by this?
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According to the Service Documents, it does have a fuel filter (in addition to the strainer). However, it does not appear to be easily serviceable! Bummer...
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So it's all in the tank? What a dumb design. So, over the years as the fuel filter gets gunked up, it appears the only way to replace it is to drop the gas tank. How stupid!
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So it's all in the tank? What a dumb design. So, over the years as the fuel filter gets gunked up, it appears the only way to replace it is to drop the gas tank. How stupid!
Where have you been the last 10-15 years? Answer:
This opens up the opportunity to install a lighter alloy tank
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Where have you been the last 10-15 years?
What is that supposed to mean? Answer:
I'm shocked - no fuel filter external of the gas tank?
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What is that supposed to mean?
Unfortunately, it's become pretty common. Answer:
The access point for the fuel pump and filter assembly is behind the driver's seat.
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The access point for the fuel pump and filter assembly is behind the driver's seat.
You can not remove the assembly through this access panel. The access panel behind the driver's seat is just to get at the connections on the top of the assembly. To actually remove the assembly, you must drop the tank from below. To drop the tank from below you must remove the seat, the trim panel and the access panel to disconnect the connections. Then you get to remove the engine bay undertray, the shear panel and the tank craddles. Sounds fun!!!This is all according to the Service Notes and not from actual experience. It certainly would make more sense if the assembly could be removed from the access point, but it is true that many cars today require dropping the tank to service the in-tank fuel pump/assembly. The below text is from the Lotus Service Notes. The pictures show the areas being discussed. Answer:
I've got cars that I will admit that I haven't ever changed the fuel filter on. My Honda Accord had it's fuel filter changed at 140,000 miles "just because". I noticed absolutely no difference to the car before or after the the filter change.The reality is that "dirty" fuel isn't really a problem. Even if it is, for people are concerned about the fuel "filter" sock in the the tank getting clogged - well, that would be before any other fuel filter, so it would still be a problem with or without any other fuel filter. Just like any other modern car, you would have to remove the fuel tank to get to the fuel filter sock. Oh, yea, my Honda Accord also has a fuel filter sock in the fuel tank, and with over 200,000 miles on it, I haven't had a problem with it. But if I did, I would have to remove much of the interior of the rear seat, remove the rear seat, remove the access panel to disconnect things, and drop the fuel tank from underneath the car to clean/replace the fuel sock. Answer:
FWIW, I got stranded years ago by my 85 Corolla GTS when the fuel filter got plugged. Probably had 60-75k miles on it at the time -- never had any other problems with the car. As I was driving, the car just got slower and slower and slower (pushing the accelerator didn't do anything) until it wouldn't move at all. A hippie in a passing minivan helped push my car to a nearby gas station (downhill, thankfully!) where the grease monkey replaced the filter and all was well. So put me in the "wish it had a filter" camp. Answer:
I had a 95 Ford Probe GT that was randomly stalling and running poorly. Drove me nuts trying to figure out what the problem was, but replacing the fuel filter was the thing that fixed it.I started this thread because I know of an Elise owner who is dropping his gas tank (eeek!) because it looks like the "intake strainer sock" is clogged. Answer:
Toyota has deemed the fuel filter as a "non maintenence" item and it is supposed to last the life of the car. Since their cars tend to go well over 200k+ miles they must be very confident about that statement.Fuel filters are from the days of old... Answer:
I will state that the only cars that I've had fuel delivery problems with have been because of clogged fuel filters (the cheap small kind). On my cars without fuel filters, I've never had a problem... I guess I wouldn't mind having an easy to replace fuel filter on the Elise, but I'm not going to loose sleep over not having one. Answer:
Fuel filters are from the days of old...
That's just about opposite what wikipedia says (not that wikipedia is always right): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_filter Found in most internal combustion engines, a fuel filter is a filter in the fuel line that screens out dirt and rust particles from the fuel. Fuel filters serve a vital function in today's modern, tight-tolerance engine fuel systems. Unfiltered fuel may contain several kinds of contamination, for example paint chips and dirt that has been knocked into the tank while filling, or rust caused by moisture in a steel tank. If these substances are not removed before the fuel enters the system, they will cause rapid wear and failure of the fuel pump and injectors, due to the abrasive action of the particles on the high-precision components used in modern injection systems. Fuel filters also improve performance, as the less contaminants in the fuel, the more efficiently it can be burnt. Fuel filters need to be maintained at regular service intervals. This is usually a case of simply disconnecting the filter from the fuel line and replacing it with a new one, although some specially designed filters can be cleaned and reused many times. If a filter is not replaced regularly it may become clogged with contaminants and cause a restriction in the fuel flow, causing an appreciable drop in engine performance as the engine struggles to draw enough fuel to continue running normally. Some filters, especially found on diesel engines, consist of a bowl-like design which will collect water in the bottom (as water is more dense than diesel). The water can then be drained off when required, by opening a valve in the bottom of the bowl and letting the water run out, until the bowl contains only diesel. It is especially undesirable for water to be drawn into a diesel engine fuel system, as the system relies on the diesel for lubrication of the moving parts, and if water gets into a moving part which requires constant lubrication (for example an injector valve), it will quickly cause overheating and unnecessary wear. This type of filter may also include a sensor, which will alert the operator when the filter needs to be drained. In automobiles this usually causes an idiot light (customarily orange, and with the image of a fuel filter) on the dashboard to illuminate. Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_filter" Answer:
In my old '69 Fiat 850 Spyder I had a 5 gallon tank. If I let the tank go below 2 full gallons, I had to take apart the fuel lines and filter and blow them out (usually by a large gust of wind from my lungs). Everything clogged up with rusty crap.Glad to hear today's designs are more reliable. Answer:
T If these substances are not removed before the fuel enters the system, they will cause rapid wear and failure of the fuel pump and injectors,
One fallacy of that report - there aren't too many easily replaceable fuel filters that filter the fuel prior to it getting into the fuel pump. Most cars seem to have the fuel pump installed in the gas tank now days.In the old days, the pump was usually mechanically driven by the engine. It sucked fuel from the tank via the fuel lines. There was often a filter placed in-line between the tank and the pump. Other times, the filter was on the output side of the fuel pump. The idea was to keep "dirt" particles from getting into the carburetors and plugging up the very tiny passages. Now days, with fuel injection engines, the fuel system runs at higher pressures (~100 PSI instead of 3-5 PSI). This usually requires an electrically driven "pusher" pump installed in the tank. That's why cars have the strainer sock on the pickup in the tank. If "dirt" gets into the pump, it can ruin it. Installing a filter after the pump will protect the fuel injectors, but it's too late to protect the fuel pump (which can be very expensive to replace, not counting the labor). So instead, they install the filtering "sock" on the pump and hope for the best. Fuel tanks and such are much better protected against corrosion - when was the last time you heard of a rusted tank causing problems on a modern car. For the record, the Elise has a stainless steel fuel tank, so rust/corrosion problems shouldn't be of concern. Now you just have to use good gas (don't buy during or shortly after a fuel delivery at the gas station), and hope that no vandals pour sand or dirt in your tank (which is much harder to do now with the "unleaded fuel only" flapper in the tank). By the way, sugar in the fuel tank won't cause any problems - the sugar dissolves in the fuel... Answer:
One fallacy of that report - there aren't too many easily replaceable fuel filters that filter the fuel prior to it getting into the fuel pump. Most cars seem to have the fuel pump installed in the gas tank now days.
Yup - that's why they put the filter in the tank. And chances are good, that if you've got a modern car with an easily replaceable fuel filter, it's got one upstream in the tank anyway. Answer:
Fuel tanks and such are much better protected against corrosion - when was the last time you heard of a rusted tank causing problems on a modern car. For the record, the Elise has a stainless steel fuel tank, so rust/corrosion problems shouldn't be of concern.
I thought most cars where now moving to plastic gas tanks which are enclosed, but not nessessarily sealed, in metal. This is why you don't have to worry about rust anymore. There aren't too many easily replaceable fuel filters that filter the fuel prior to it getting into the fuel pump. Most cars seem to have the fuel pump installed in the gas tank now days. I'm pretty sure my Honda Civic has two filters, one in the tank and another in the engine bay, which is easily replaced. I assume the one in the tank is coarse enough to just protect the fuel pump, while the one in the engine bay protects the injectors. Water in lamps. Weird noise - help please!! - Page 2 Weird noise - help please!! wet spot - Page 2 wet spot What brand oil filter has an anti-drain back valve? What did I break at the track? - Page 2 Copyright © 2006 - 2008 www.TendCar.com
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