The service manual states the Lotus scan tool is needed to cycle the ABS system when changing the brake fluid. So my question is can we do a DIY fluid change or is this a dealer only job? Is it absolutely necessary to cycle the ABS when changing the fluid? If you are only changing fluid and not introducing air into the system I don't see why you would have to cycle the system.

If you are introducing air, such as changing hoses, you can fill the system, bleed it, take it out and do some quick stops to cycle the system (a dirty road really helps) and rebleed. If you are only changing fluid and not introducing air into the system I don't see why you would have to cycle the system.

If you are introducing air, such as changing hoses, you can fill the system, bleed it, take it out and do some quick stops to cycle the system (a dirty road really helps) and rebleed.
Got any suggestions there? I'm worried about doing the lines myself... I've never done a car with ABS at all, and frankly, it's been so long since I've even done a fluid change I'm dubious on my rememberance of how to do it properly anyway...

Sure I remember how to bleed, but that's the easy easy part... Do I drain through the valves on each caliper also? I seem to recall that I did... but boy it's been years... Got any suggestions there? I'm worried about doing the lines myself... I've never done a car with ABS at all, and frankly, it's been so long since I've even done a fluid change I'm dubious on my rememberance of how to do it properly anyway...

Sure I remember how to bleed, but that's the easy easy part... Do I drain through the valves on each caliper also? I seem to recall that I did... but boy it's been years...
The fronts are a major PIA!!! ABS doesn't change the drill. It is just very difficult to get air out of the ABS valving once you introduce air. I bleed the Elise with a pressure bleeder. And, you have to remove both front calipers to bleed the fronts properly. If you are not into a several hour job, have a selection of wrenchs and a dremmel, find something else to mod and let a shop who has done it before do it. Got any suggestions there? I'm worried about doing the lines myself... I've never done a car with ABS at all, and frankly, it's been so long since I've even done a fluid change I'm dubious on my rememberance of how to do it properly anyway...

Sure I remember how to bleed, but that's the easy easy part... Do I drain through the valves on each caliper also? I seem to recall that I did... but boy it's been years... I know the basic procedure for a brake fluid change is to draw out the fluid from the reservoir, add new fluid to the now empty reservoir and then bleed from each bleeder valve on all 4 calipers and then top up the reservoir as needed. Obviously this is best done with a vacuum type brake bleeder. To clarifi my original question is there still brake fluid in the ABS pump that can not be extracted without the Lotus scan tool So MyElise and dawn...

My next question there... is it worth around $400-450 to have Mark do it at HRM?

If I have to remove calipers (and I don't mind)... what special wrenches do I need, I assume you say that because I have to clear the air from the caliper valve itself because it's prone to trapping air...

I have box end ratcheting, box end and normal sockets... not enough?

Cheers... So MyElise and dawn...

My next question there... is it worth around $400-450 to have Mark do it at HRM?

Totally depends on if you are comfortable enough with your skills to do it and if your time is worth $100/hr. because on a first time install you will spend at least that.

If I have to remove calipers (and I don't mind)... what special wrenches do I need, I assume you say that because I have to clear the air from the caliper valve itself because it's prone to trapping air...

No special wrenches required to remove the front calipers. You might want to use some blue loctite when replacing them. The front calipers are dual piston with a connecting pipe which runs under the caliper. Therefore, when air gets trapped in the inboard piston area (which is the area that receives the most when you remove the line) it is not easily pushed down and through the tube and up to the bleed valve. Therefore, you have to remove the caliper and rotate it during the bleeding process. This is much easier if you have a pressure bleeder. BTW, I tried using a vacuum bleeder and it was useless on this car.


I have box end ratcheting, box end and normal sockets... not enough?

The inboard area where the lines connect is very tight. You have to remove the front covers and grills as well as both inner fenders. It's been a year since I did it but I remember having to use different open end wrenches to get in there. You also have to cut away some of a plastic cover on the passenger side in order to get enough space to get a wrench on the nut on the inboard side of the hose. Once again, a PIA.

Cheers... . Got any suggestions there? I'm worried about doing the lines myself... I've never done a car with ABS at all, and frankly, it's been so long since I've even done a fluid change I'm dubious on my rememberance of how to do it properly anyway...Sure I remember how to bleed, but that's the easy easy part... Do I drain through the valves on each caliper also? I seem to recall that I did... but boy it's been years...
The Elise is not a car for which you should rush into a brake line swap. No need to do so. Or, can we make a simple device that mimics what the Lotus scan tool does to the ABS? The Elise is not a car for which you should rush into a brake line swap. No need to do so.
True, it really makes very little difference. The Elise is not a car for which you should rush into a brake line swap. No need to do so.
Interesting, why do you say that Stan? I assume because it has hard lines right up to the a-arm mounts at each corner of the car? The lines themselves are perhaps 0.5M at best... have you done the install and/or do you feel that brake modulation will be improved by a small percentage at best?

Cheers...

PS - MyElise, I do have the front clam off currently so that does make the install worlds easier... Interesting, why do you say that Stan? I assume because it has hard lines right up to the a-arm mounts at each corner of the car? The lines themselves are perhaps 0.5M at best... have you done the install and/or do you feel that brake modulation will be improved by a small percentage at best? Cheers...PS - MyElise, I do have the front clam off currently so that does make the install worlds easier...
* Elise brakes run low hydraulic pressures compared to "normal" cars, hence less hose expansion.

* We have a servo setup which already adds some squish you cannot eliminate. Much of the as-delivered squish of an 05 car can be reduced by resetting the brake pedal position via the pushrod setting. That is much more noticeable. * Elise brakes run low hydraulic pressures compared to "normal" cars, hence less hose expansion.

* We have a servo setup which already adds some squish you cannot eliminate. Much of the as-delivered squish of an 05 car can be reduced by resetting the brake pedal position via the pushrod setting. That is much more noticeable.
I did have the boys at HRM do the brake pedal adjustment to provide an easier heel & toe position -- I was the first one to receive the "factory version" of the modification (some had it done the "wrong" way prior to the service bulletin being released) -- though I remember the lads at HRM needed to add a flat washer to the end of the throttle cable (@ the engine) because they were having a problem with movement... I do not recall if I felt a difference in brake pedal modulation.... I don't believe so... food for thought I suppose... is there another adjustment I should explore?

Then again I never did a track day after the modification so perhaps I never drove aggressively enough to notice...

Cheers Couple of things:

You only need normal tools to bleed the brakes - you would only need a dremel if you need to cut away body to fit wrenches to change the brake lines.

You can do a normal bleed process like with a regular car. The exception noted above is that the front calipers need to be removed to bleed in two stages. You need to invert the caliper to bleed the inner half of the caliper (even if you don't get air in it). The flip it back right side up to bleed the outer half of the caliper. Put a block of wood in between the pads to keep them separated as you do the bleeding.

You cannot bleed the fluid trapped in the ABS pumps, reservoirs, and valves without the proper scan tool. It is a small quantity. A good procedure would be to bleed the brakes, go for a drive, make the ABS kick in a couple of times, and then bleed all over again. A very big pain.

There is no simple tool that you can use to cycle the ABS system - that's one of the things that the Lotus Scan Tools can do. It can give the ABS system a command to open all the valves and run the pumps, allowing the fluid to by flushed out of the ABS system.

You should be able to buy other ABS scan tools to use on the Elise - the system is a Kelsey-Hayes ABS system, and is fairly common (although it's specifically programmed for the Elise). The problem is that you can't get a cheap version of the tool. Companies like OTC and Snap-On sell scan tools (they can usually do OBS-II as wells as ABS and airbag systems), but they are priced at $800 and up (at least $800 was the cheapest I found, others were a couple of thousand bucks).

If anyone finds a reasonably priced ABS scan tool (similar to PC based ODB-II scan tools) I'd love to hear about it... Just back from 3 days at VIR. Bled my brakes the 'old fashioned' way by emptying the resevoir, refilling with new fluid and having a friend push down the brake pedal while cracking the bleeder. Did each caliper twice. Refilled the resevoir 2-3 times. Used ATE Blue. Did not remove the front calipers as has been suggested. Have been tracking cars since '95 and am sensitive to air in the lines or any brake fade. Two high speed decelerations at VIR and did not detect ANY fade using this method.

I was also concerned about needing to cycle the ABS pump but I don't see any need after this.

My 2 cents.

Jim A. Just back from 3 days at VIR. Bled my brakes the 'old fashioned' way by emptying the resevoir, refilling with new fluid and having a friend push down the brake pedal while cracking the bleeder. Did each caliper twice. Refilled the resevoir 2-3 times. Used ATE Blue. Did not remove the front calipers as has been suggested. Have been tracking cars since '95 and am sensitive to air in the lines or any brake fade. Two high speed decelerations at VIR and did not detect ANY fade using this method.

I was also concerned about needing to cycle the ABS pump but I don't see any need after this.

My 2 cents.

Jim A. Hmmmmmm, now that is interesting . . . adds mystery to the topic. I ran with Jim and he doesn't use his brakes! Seriously, you don't need to remove and rotate the front calipers unless you replace the lines or do something else to get a lot of air in the system. If you do, rotation is essential and you will see a big glob of air burp out. Otherwise, normal bleeding works fine. I thought that air might get trapped in the master cylinder but that is evidently not a problem. Seriously, you don't need to remove and rotate the front calipers unless you replace the lines or do something else to get a lot of air in the system. If you do, rotation is essential and you will see a big glob of air burp out. You do need to remove and rotate the front calipers if you want to ensure that you flush all of the old fluid out of the calipers. You do need to cycle the ABS if you want to ensure that you flush all of the old fluid our of the ABS system.

But is it really needed?

Flushing out most of the fluid (as posted above) is probably all that is needed. By not cycling the ABS and removing and rotating the calipers, you are flushing out the majority of the fluid, and it's probably "good enough". Agree with Tim and others - any fluid retained near the ABS unit is probably not going to be a factor when braking at the track.

As you know, brake fluid quality is of paramount performance when the fluid is subjected to heat. The fluid near the ABS unit is just not going to see the high temps that the calipers will see. So, even if the fluid has lost some of its boiling point capability, it's not going to see high temps at the ABS unit.

Any fluid that does diffuse toward the calipers is going to be so diluted that the boiling point of the fluid isn't likely to compromised much.

ed Just back from 3 days at VIR. Bled my brakes the 'old fashioned' way by emptying the resevoir, refilling with new fluid and having a friend push down the brake pedal while cracking the bleeder. Did each caliper twice. Refilled the resevoir 2-3 times. Used ATE Blue. Did not remove the front calipers as has been suggested. Have been tracking cars since '95 and am sensitive to air in the lines or any brake fade. Two high speed decelerations at VIR and did not detect ANY fade using this method.

I was also concerned about needing to cycle the ABS pump but I don't see any need after this.

My 2 cents.

Jim A.
After you do it right, pull the rotors, rotate them and watch all the little bubbles come out, you will begin to understand.

To others, don't "empty" the reservoir. Add fluid at the 1/2 full point. One brake press that sucks air through the resevoir and you will wish you'd filled it earlier. A one man brake bleeder is about $6 and a pressure bleeder is about $50. Either is a good investment.