The new Avalon has 280 hp. The Mustang GT has 300 hp. The GTO has 400 hp. That does it! No more Mr. nice guy! I have had all this BS I intend to put up with!

I know the Avalon is no threat, but ordinary sedans like this are getting way too close for comfort, power wise! IMO. The Mustang GT and the GTO have shortcomings of various types as well. Mostly in the chassis and suspension department. But again. I was swatting stock Mustang GTs with ease at the drag strip last summer with my pure stock 350Z. These developments do not bode well for this summer and I am not taking this lying down! I for one am not content to live in a world where stock pon pon GTOs are handing me my head on a plate at the drag strip even if they do have kinda piggish porker handling in curves. Same goes for GT 'stangs even though that's a much closer drag race.

APS says the single turbo is right on schedule for our 350Zs. 500 hp at the engine with the stock internals with reliability. Plan A. Cost $5700 for kit and 12 to 14 hours for the install. My friend Tuan is running the APS TT on his 350Z at over 600 hp at the engine on stock internals and no other mods. The APS single turbo will easily provide this power level as well. Tuan has 4000 miles on it at this power level, but I recommend staying at the 500 hp level unless you build up the bottom end of the engine. My Mother left me $10K last year when she passed away, God bless her heart, and she would not want her son to have a power deficit to stock pon pons!! That will also cover the APS hi flow plenum and APS true dual exhaust for their single turbo that is fine tuned to enhance the single turbo. Quaife limited slip differential is not available, yet. But I'm working on it. Yes, GTOs, you better watch out cause I'm working on it! he he. Oh yeah you're gonna get a big surprise! I intend to put the general down on one knee this summer!

Eventaully plan B. Our rods are forged, but heavier duty forged Pauter or Carillo H beam rods and forged Arias 9.5 to 1 compression ratio pistons and the APS turbo kit is good for 650 hp at the engine.

The war begins!



I do not even consider the thing with the Z32 TTs even an issue. I lusted after that car and drove many highly modified Z32 TTs during the '90s. They were a blast, but at this point in time, I wanted a new car and so enter the Z33. I consider racing a Z32 TT with a Z33 turbo to be like playing football against my brothers. I fight them tooth and nail during the game. But at the end of the day, we shake hands and walk off the field as brothers. One of my best friends has a 550 hp Z32 TT and I just feel differently about it, that's all. You guys/gals havta make up your own minds about all that... I would never bad mouth my brother or my friend's ride. It's him and me against the world and carrying the Nissan flag this summer. And just like in football there'll be blood and teeth flying this summer! Been there, done that, count me in! The thing with Mustang GTs and pon pons is different. Personal. Yes and stock Mustang Cobras are in for my wrath as well. And you know who you are. There! I said it! I laid it all on the line! Let it be!

Back in April of 1992, I won first place in the Buick and Turbo Racers Club of America Spring Turbo Nationals Drag Race. I was the only Japanese import there against 25 Buick Grand National turbos and Pontiac Regal turbos. I put the general down on one knee that day and I got plenty of fightin'blood an spit left!!! I haven't done much drag racing because my professional job keeps cutting into my day since 1992. But like the terminator, I'll be baak!

P.S. In the '92 Nationals race, the mostly Buick and Pontiac crowd treated me wonderfully. They were great guys and gals and we had great fun. Great food and great people! They were genuinely nice people and made me feel right at home. A real classy group of people. All jokes aside, it was a great day and this rivalry is all in good fun, IMO. I hope all of you understand that. A woman in an 11 sec. Pontiac Regal turbo almost beat me in the second round of eliminations.



Post Edited (Mar 8, 9:47pm)



Yeah there's a big Horsepower war going on between car companys and pretty soon the normal Sedans will overtake the Z's. Maybe with the rising gas prices they will start cutting back on the Horsepower wars. I to am starting to get worried about all these Run of the Mil cars getting closer and cloaser to the performance levels of the fastest Z's.

350Z should have come out Turbo from the factory!

-------------------------------------------------
Road & Track Executive Editor, Richard Homan 1994

"Give me a 300ZX Twin Turbo and a three-day
weekend in the Sierra Nevadas, and i'll come back
with the meaning of life."




if the 350Z had "come out Turbo from the factory," it would have been a $40,000+ car rather than a $26,000 to $32,000 car. You don't bring back an icon hoping to sell 30,000 units a year by pricing it out of reach of the target market.

Let it go already, okay?



Post Edited (Mar 8, 10:07pm)



You are sooooo right, IceMan. I feel your pain... It is a conspiracy I tell you! Back in the early 90s when I was racing heavily, the stock Corvettes were running 245 hp! They were not even a challenge to a stock Z32 TT. Stock Mustang GTs were like 215 or 225 hp. I could spot stock Mustang GTs several lights at the drag strip, catch them from behind, and leave them going away like a bad habit. And now you tell me a stock Avalon has 280 HP to my 287! Sacrilege! A complete lack of respect. And that can mean only one thing... Communism! Plain and simple! It was forced induction that pulled me through before when I faced this crisis of Biblical proportions! Oh, Lady of Sacred Acceleration don't fail me now!!

P.S. I don't suffer from delusions...I rather enjoy them! ha



Post Edited (Mar 8, 10:51pm)



There's always going to be cars with bigger engines. I love the Z the way it is, 287hp stock is plenty for me. As you yourself said, for those that are always power-hungry, go for a SC or a turbo.



It's even worse than I told you. I just didn't want you guys/gals to worry is why I didn't say this to you folks before. But. Last week. An Impala sedan had the gall to rev on me! The Savannah Flash is not amused! What is the world coming to. Don't despair.


Ode to the state of affairs:
I exposed the Impala for the pretender that he was
Rather than the contender he thought himself to be.
The nerve of that guy!
Challenging a Z!!

But this is not even funny when you have Impalas even tryin'! Somebody has to cowboy up to the challange, pilgrim. Well, we gotta few more miles to go before the horses are in the barn, but I do not intend to let this sorta thing get outta hand.



Post Edited (Mar 8, 10:41pm)



I understand your point of view, bay_area_newbie. It is called denial. And we have therapy for that... We're all in this together. Take twin turbos and call me in the morning. Just ask yourself, what would The Duke do in a situation like this?!? Impalas reving on Zs! The very idea just makes... me... sick. Off with the kid gloves and on with the 8 ounce ones! Er...I mean 8 psi. Actually it's 9.2 psi on stock internals, but you get my point.



Post Edited (Mar 8, 10:57pm)



>500 hp at the engine with the stock internals with reliability.

Please don't make this mistake, you're being scammed. A new engine is expensive to buy. Forced induction is forced induction, the weak part isn't the turbo kits, it's the engine. This kit isn't magically going to enter territory that the other kits cannot.



Guess you are as blind to sarcasm as you are to everything else. At least I give some information that some people might be interested in. All you ever do is troll around on your belly and bad mouth things you don't know about. Bah humbug, scrouge, or some lame derivative is all you ever post. You sound like a broken record about a grand total of...nothing. But, if you don't like my posts, then ignore them. Like I'll do for yours from now on, Grandpa. Man, are you at least 99 years old and all messed up in the body like you are in the mind? That would kinda explain things a bit. If you aren't, then I really do pity people with your attitude.

If you really ever did an honest search, you'd find that many of my posts were in reply to people on this website who ASKED for more information because they were interested. You never have OR give any information other than your same old blah blah blah bah humbug BS. The only thing worse than a troll is a grandpa troll.



Post Edited (Mar 9, 12:38pm)



Ven I totally agree with you. I too have noticed all his other threads he's posted here touting how great this kit is, so you KNOW he is basically trying to drum up business for the kit. Why else would someone be such an expert on something and get so offended when people are against his claims, or at least very cautious. More Power should (if he isn't already) be on APS's payroll!



I don't remember anyone asking you to make a new thread about an APS kit. Also, if anyone was truely interested in spending thousands and getting the kit, they'd obviously do more research rather than asking you to feed them tidbits that anyone else with an ounce of effort can get. Try again....



"Learn to read. If you don't like the thread, then gtf out. Who died and left you in charge of what people can and cannot post about? Actually I posted all this so you could do all that work to research prior posts. You played the fool just like I thought, ha. Good for you, Gandpa."

More Power: ***Please*** keep it civil, and respect other members here. I'm guessing you're either going to reply with another tirade, or wisen up. Either ways, you know the language is not appreciated.



Hey hey, this thread was all cool till ven100, the troll, loused it up. He said "Are you a APS spokesperson or something. You've already posted that you're going to get the APS kit, so why do you now make another thread about it? Just get the damn thing already.

This thread seems nothing more than an advertisement for APS and the whole "war" thing was nothing but a front."

Then, he started the bad mouthing by adding to that last sentence in para. one something like "AND STF UP". The way the guy acts in general.

I see ven100 knows about this and is now ashamed of it cause he has gone back and edited that last part out. How convenient. I repied to him in kind that if he didn't like the thread to gtf out. By editing that out, he's dishonest as well as a troll. A dishonest grandpa troll, ha. If you go back and read his comments - he's edited some of it out to clean it up - all he did was bad mouth and get personal like that and give nothing else from the beginning. Which is par for him. All I have done with my editing is correct a few typos and such.

Some people have asked me for info on these superchargers, APS and otherwise, and I have provided some on other threads. If I hadn't seen an interest, I would not have kept posting. Since there has been some interest, I suggest that all who are not interested merely go to another thread instead of getting a pi$$ing contest started. I really don't care other than some people HAVE been interested and wanted more info and some have also reported we are losing our power edge to other cars. My job is in a totally unrelated field to cars and I am in no way affiliated with APS. Financially or other wise. As I posted. Anybody do a search on me the last several years on this forum and ever see me offer to "sell you one" or "help you get a good deal if you go with my recommendations"? If that were true, ven100 the dishonest, grandpa troll, "search" whiz kid, Richard Nixon type editer would be spitting up his pablum about that as well. ha. There were times back in the past, before the APS kits came out, that you can see I made many posts that other forced induction kits seemed to be the best at the time. A simple serch will prove that. I am merely pro APS now cause that's where the current evidence is taking me.

The real truth is that ven100 is narrow minded and doesn't like to modify his Z car so he goes into threads like this and flames to get the thread off topic and create flame wars. I don't do that to other people and I don't appeciate other people doing it. He doesn't like me cause I have pointed that out when he does it and he made himself look foolish and now he's being vindictive. Go back and do a search. I never make a bad mouth reply to something he didn't start and get flame wars going. He often does, but in all fairness, not always. I don't have to get his permission to start a thread about something that many have expressed an interest in. If he doesn't like it, tough stuff, troll.

Everyone has now had their say. Now I suggest that we get back on topic about the issues and keep the personal attacks out of it. If no one wants to continue the thread that's cool with me.



Post Edited (Mar 9, 2:11pm)



More Power wrote:

> I see ven100 knows about this and is now ashamed of it cause he
> has gone back and edited that last part out. How convenient.
> I repied to him in kind that if he didn't like the thread to
> gtf out. By editing that out, he's dishonest as well as a
> troll.


Looks like I edited my post before you posted yours. The yolk's still on you. Oh, I have nothing to be ashamed about because if you notice, I also added more to the post.



Ven100 wrote:

>
> Looks like I edited my post before you posted yours. The
> yolk's still on you. Oh, I have nothing to be ashamed about
> because if you notice, I also added more to the post.

But you posted yours first and everyone saw it first who was present. I saw it first and you know it as well. Are you a liar as well as a troll? I really don't care. And while I was in the proess of posting in reply to your bad mouthing, you slithered back in and edited it out. he he Nice troll trick, but you have as much as admitted it and admitted that you said it. And now it shows you contrived the whole thing. By your own words.

Again I have no interest in continuing your little flame war. A wise man once told me to never argue with a crazy man or a crazy troll in this case. They bring you down to their level and then beat you on experience. Crawl back under your rock.





Your drivel is tiresome. "Well nu-uh cause you did it first so there" type responses. I have no problem telling someone to "stfu" (I usually do it with a jpeg). Thought it was kinda harsh at first, so I rescinded it.

Quote:

He doesn't like me cause I have pointed that out when he does it and he made himself look foolish and now he's being vindictive.

Since this was the first time I've actually responded to you (that I remember), that basically throws your idea out the window. The whole premise of my original post to you was to say your thread was silly talking about "war" when all you wanted to do was talk about the APS kit. You should've just cut out the BS and titled the thread "APS Kit Info". But no, you wanted to put on a "show" and spice it up. As I mentioned before, let's at least try to think straight. Your setup was as transparent as the bottom of an empty pint glass.....

A wise man also once said it's better to let people think you are stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. With that being said (& since we're "done"), I offer you this.





>What the facts are showing is that the weaknesses are very MUCH in the
> forced induction kits and NOT in our VQ engines. Yeah, it it recommended

The engine really doesn't care *what* is producing the 7-9 psi going into the intake. You will not get me to believe that Stillen, Greddy and HKS are all just incompetent and APS is magically going to whip out twice the power increase due to a different kind of blower mechanism. Pressure is pressure.

I get the impression you are selling the APS kit, or have a vested interest in it.



I 2nd z32d00d.


And how is it that whenever I see Ven posting it's engaging in an argument or badmouthing some one.

What a sour puss. /=-)

-------------------------------------------------
Road & Track Executive Editor, Richard Homan 1994

"Give me a 300ZX Twin Turbo and a three-day
weekend in the Sierra Nevadas, and i'll come back
with the meaning of life."




ICE--because ven is a dirty old bastard with nothing better to do, at least we are pondering the possibilities about that aps kit, and soaking in some information, while ven (as usual) is just trolling around and contributing nothing, just pissing off everyone and looking stupid. I hope I don't become retarded like him when I reach his feeble old age.....(amen)

Oh btw, I think the vq can handle 500hp, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that it will be reliable, and last for more than 50000 miles without some serious rebuilding....what do you guys think? Can the vq with that aps setup with mild to moderate racing hold up for at least 50k?

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!


Post Edited (Mar 9, 5:35pm)



I knew it was only a matter of time before TTZpower made his appearance in this thread.

Quote:

Iceman wrote:
And how is it that whenever I see Ven posting it's engaging in an argument or badmouthing some one

Yes, both you and TTZpower have first hand experience on this correct? Chalk it up to being called on your BS in past threads.



Hey Ice, is ven trying to post something intelligent? hmmm......nope. Nothing intelligent to say since the model T Ford was introduced, since he's been around that long.... Ladies and gentleman, ven had absolutely nothing important to say once again! Have a nice day, this message was brought to you in part by : ven100, the oldest troll in zcar.com, Inc.

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!


Post Edited (Mar 9, 6:50pm)



Author: z32d00d wrote

The engine really doesn't care *what* is producing the 7-9 psi going into the intake. You will not get me to believe that Stillen, Greddy and HKS are all just incompetent and APS is magically going to whip out twice the power increase due to a different kind of blower mechanism. Pressure is pressure.

I get the impression you are selling the APS kit, or have a vested interest in it.
****************************************
Everyone has to make up their own minds about how to go if/when they decide on forced induction. And what and who to believe. Just because I have strong opinions, am a fast typist, and too verbose, I admit, doesn’t mean I’m profiting. I’m not. Again go back and do a search on my postings and notice about 6 months ago I was very pro HKS till the tuning problems arose. At about this time I was about ready to forego forced induction till HKS worked out the bugs or probably duplicate Shariffs mucho modified Greddy kit. And then APS started making such a stir. If you think I’m the only one that is impressed, just wait a while and see when all this is more common knowledge. Go back before that and see how there was a time I was pro Vortech and still am to an extent till APS just turned out much better. Do you really think I work for all these companies at once. Ha I WISH!!! I have gone where the evidence leads me. And go back and do a search on my posts. Have I ever tried to sell anything to anybody or get them a “deal” if they go through me wink wink. No. Do a search. But believe whatever you want. I worked part time in the early to mid 90s at a major turbo performance center part time as a second job. And I was sponsored in racing by this HKS Pro Series Dealer. As I have posted. That ended in 1993 when my real job and raising kids kept cutting into my day. And other reasons unrelated to cars at all resulted in my getting out of racing mostly and sponsorship and not working for the turbo performance center part time anymore. I have no involvement with HKS and any other business in racing or selling cars or selling turbos or anything of the sort. I work in a TOTALLY unrelated field and some on this website know this. Do my prior posts about working with nurses and doctors who own 350Zs really sound like I sell turbos for APS. Hell, if I could quit and become an APS dealer right now, I sure as hell would, ha.

And yeah, your are right. There is no magic involved. Don’t take my word for it on the fuel system. Read the current issue of Sport Z magazine in which the 350Z Grand Am crew chief discusses the inadequacies of our stock fuel system for much over 300 hp. And he is a guy that makes a living knowing about these things in a muti hundred grand car. It is not just the correct fuel pressure and air/fuel ratio, it is consistent fuel pressure without peaks and valleys that can do harm to our engines. As part of that he discusses and re discusses how crucial it is to have a fuel return/recirculation system when upgrading 350Z power. This fuel return system also provides cooler fuel as well as consistent fuel availability. APS is the only kit on the market that has a fuel return system. No magic involved. The other kits don’t have one. Simple. I don’t sell turbos etc. but I am in epidemiological research and I know how to do research and I have a strong bacground in formerly working in a turbo performance center and racing turbo cars. So either the top import engine builders and the Grand Am crew chief don’t know what they are talking about with the fuel system or you are playing Russian roulette with your engine if you don’t have such a fuel system. No magic. Believe what you want to. I may save someone a blown engine. I got personality from years, way back in the 90s when I did work for a turbo performance center and answered the tech line for customers about many various types of forced induction kits we installed. Hell I’ve returned calls from guys back then from home and paid long distance bills just to help them out. Forget it. Believe what you want.

Talk to Shariff, the guy in the TT 350Z video racing the turbo Subaro. He will tell you the importance of this. A fuel return system is not in the Greddy kit, but he knows enough to go out and buy a real good one to upgrade. A lot of guys didn’t and have toasted engines. No magic, just execution.

Most all of the other 350Z forced induction kits got skimpy on the fuel system that the Grand Am crew chief, and others, mentions as crucial to More Power long term reliability. They did this to cut overhead and keep the cost of the kits down. Understandable. And that is proving problematic to long term engine life though not always so far…. or immediately after the kit is installed. APS did a lot more R&D and was later getting their kits to the market. They have also noted the problems and shortcomings of the other kits and benefited. Hind sight is an advantage. But, APS lost a lot of early sales by taking so long to get to the market and getting all this worked out better. It’s a double edge sword. And the APS kits cost a little more than most. Other than HKS which is kinda pricey, also.

As I said, ANY of these other kits can work real well if you cover any and all the systems that may have weaknesses as applicable to the kit. So you pay a little more up front with APS, but you get a very robust kit in all the major areas like ems, oil cooling, oil starvation/uptake from an upgraded oil pan, fuel system, etc. So APS is a good kit for people who want to buy a kit and not have to know how to mix and match and upgrade in order to get the best, most reliable set up.

On the other hand, some people love to tinker and buy a cheaper kit like Greddy. And they are perfectly capable of upgrading any and all weaknesses, like the fuel system. And they prefer to get the specific fuel system they want, ems system they want, etc. The APS kit is not the best way to go for those people. Let me repeat. APS is NOT the best way to go for these people. And they may very well end up with about as good an overall set up as APS. And is some aspects even better. For instance, you can get an even better fuel system than APS. And if you want to go beyond 700 to 800 hp you actually need that better fuel system (don’t remember where the hp cut off is exactly, too lazy to look it up, ha). And the overall money may not be that much different though I think you’ll pay some more that way. It’s just that you better know what you’re doing when you go that route of modifying the kits cause you’re now on your own with your engine at stake. So I don’t care what kit you buy at all it’s just that I know of a lot of people that buy these kits that the manufactures sell as “complete”. And they are not. Many guys/gas have and are in the process of toasting their engine. I try to alert people and some people attack me without bother to do the research I suggest. /but some on here have treated me real well and I thought I’d help them out.

Doesn’t matter to me. Unless someone asks me for advice from now on I’ll save my time and not give it. But some people have asked and I was trying to be a nice guy and bring these issues to the front. And some people get nasty and don’t appreciate that. Fine with me. Everyone gotta pay their own ante if and when they roll the dice.



while locked in a debate with master baiter Ven - and he posts 7 times.

Then others get sucked into the vortex (I guess I'm included, there.)

Nice to see the Z32 guys sniffing around, too.



Post Edited (Mar 9, 10:34pm)



--Read the current issue of Sport Z magazine in which the 350Z Grand Am crew chief discusses the inadequacies of our stock fuel system for much over 300 hp. And he is a guy that makes a living knowing about these things in a muti hundred grand car. --

Actually I did read it -great article. And he didn't exactly say the stock fuel system would not handle much over 300 hp. In the article he gave a 'for instance' of holding the throttle wide open for 30 seconds down a long straight away. In that given case of long duration open throttle (like on a race course), the stock fuel system is bad for a forced induction system producing over 300hp. But it is still possible for the stock fuel system to handle short high HP bursts. However, agree it will take its toll over time.

APS has done their homework. I followed Peter's (Engineer from APS in Australia) thread on another Z site for many months prior to the APS release. I agree with you on APS as the choice if you wanted to go turbo forced induction (if $ was not an issue), but I don't understand your passionate defense of said system. It's as if someone has said something bad about your Mother.

V/R
RM
03 Touring/6spd/LeMans/AllOpts/Vin#047



Author: TTZpower wrote:
Oh btw, I think the vq can handle 500hp, but I'm not thoroughly convinced that it will be reliable, and last for more than 50000 miles without some serious rebuilding....what do you guys think? Can the vq with that aps setup with mild to moderate racing hold up for at least 50k?
*********************************

Yea!!!! Thank you TTZpower! You and several have others have submitted intelligent posts about 350Zs and cars and car issues! Thank you! What a relief. Let's talk about Z cars! As you sorta say, my own opinion is that the jury is still out on 50,000 miles with reliability for 500 hp. APS has proven they can smoothly run this power with reliability, but they have not PROVEN yet they this reliability is LONG term and over 50,000 miles. They have successfully done it for 37,000 miles with no problems, but not 50,000. Good test. I have been running boost for many years and I really really feel good that this kit will probably do it, but only time will tell. Tuan in chicago at Genesis Racing Development is running over 500 WHEEL horsepower with APS on stock 350Z internals. Close to 600 engine hp on stock internals! He is one of the premiere APS dealers in the U.S. and this is a good test. He is an APS engine tuner extraordinare so if it can be done, he is the one to watch. He will be dyno tuning my engine this summer. He has 4000 hard miles running this power, but he is really pushing the envelope of reliability and our stock rods at near 600 engine hp! Exciting though! APS recommends NOT to run more than much over 400 wheel horsepower or about 500 engine horsepower on the stock engine internals..

I am going to run stock internals at 500 engine hp. But, my own opionion is that if you can afford it, upgrade the rods and pistons and related hardware even for the 500 engine horsepower. Pauter rods are very good and Carillo H beam rods are fantastic. Good for over 1300 wheel hp, whew. Remember the 8 second at 176 mph qtr. mile, stock bodied 350Z - that I posted the video for several months back. Carillo h beam rods. But expensive. The pauter rods are more than good enough, though. A lot of guys are going to 9.5 to 1 CR forged Arias pistons. Or even slightly lower CR, but that's a trade off. 9.5 to 1 gives better throttle response, qicker turbo spool up and better gas mileage. Lower CR gives more safety.

I am going to say that yes, APS is good for 50,000 miles at the APS recommended 420 somethingish wheel hp or about 500 engine hp. There's no way to know until people have run this way with more kits, but I think 500 engine hp turns our 350Zs from a potentially 200,000 mile engine to a 75,000 to 100,000 mile engine. With good maintenance a given!

For me it's worth it. High 11 to low 12 sec. quarter mile power is FUN for a street car for clipping apexes and jaunts through the qtr. mile at the drag strip. 75,000 to 100,000 miles is more than worth the frieght IMO. And at 75k to 100k miles, I plan to have saved up and to upgrade and go up to about 500 wheel hp with the built up bottom end.



I am sorry to be so damn verbose, but just in case this helps, Peter at APS said that if you want to absolutely maximize engine longivity on stock internals, have the APS dealer tune it to about 380 engine hp or about 460 engine hp on the 93 octane map IF you are running 93 octane gas. APS kits come with the standard default map tuned for 91 octane gas out of the box. Of course having a dyno tune for the 91 octane map MIGHT be the safest of all, but the 93 octane map is fine if you have that gas available. APS dealers can tune it to the 93/94 octane tuning map if you have 93/94 octane gas in your area and also tune the timing and other parameters a little more agressive for More Power if you have the higher octane gas available. It's a trade off of course.



Author: rhmiller wrote:

--Read the current issue of Sport Z magazine in which the 350Z Grand Am crew chief discusses the inadequacies of our stock fuel system for much over 300 hp. And he is a guy that makes a living knowing about these things in a muti hundred grand car. --

Actually I did read it -great article. And he didn't exactly say the stock fuel system would not handle much over 300 hp. In the article he gave a 'for instance' of holding the throttle wide open for 30 seconds down a long straight away. In that given case of long duration open throttle (like on a race course), the stock fuel system is bad for a forced induction system producing over 300hp. But it is still possible for the stock fuel system to handle short high HP bursts. However, agree it will take its toll over time.

APS has done their homework. I followed Peter's (Engineer from APS in Australia) thread on another Z site for many months prior to the APS release. I agree with you on APS as the choice if you wanted to go turbo forced induction (if $ was not an issue), but I don't understand your passionate defense of said system. It's as if someone has said something bad about your Mother.
**********************************

I did not mean for my posts to come off as passionate defense of APS so much as I did that some premiere 350Z engine builders are passionately saying that the fuel systems, including the lack of fuel return/recirculation systems on most of these kits for 350Zs are marginal at best and dangerous at worst. It just so happens that APS is the ONLY kit that has such a fuel return system. Among other things.

As I posted, any of these kits can be upgraded with such a system and the other upgrades. The trouble is that these other kits are being sold as "complete" and many guys don't know that they are NOT complete. Greddys out of the box are toasting 350Z engines at like 3500 RPMs on what 5.6 psi stock boost. That is what I meant to say, and if I over did it and it sounded like a commercial for APS, then I apologize. And foul mouth trolls cursing me might have flavored my replies a bit. And sneaking back in and editing it out after he posted it to make it look like the other person started it is well…I won’t say it. You'd think jerks like that that already have said ad nauseum that they don't want to mod a Z would butt out and let others who do like mods talk. Especially in a thread dedicated to more power. But no. Have I ever gone over on a thread he started and started a flame war by cursing him. No. But enough of that. A lot of what I was saying in my early posts on this thread were just weak attempts at BS humor. Like someone was in denial and they should take 2 turbos and call me in the morning. I hoped it was obvious things like that were kidding and not meant to offend or put down.

BTW, what I was referencing in the Sport Z mag was specifically starting in the bottom left most column on page 38 and continuing into the top rightmost column also on page 38, “We ran the (350Z) car in the down on power mode because we found there was a fuel deficiency problem. The stock fuel system limits you to about 300 hp. To make more HP you need to make significant changes.” Continuing down several paras. on the right most column on page 38, “We know for a fact the biggest issue is the fuel system design from Nissan. It is inadequate to provide greater than about 300 HP at the flywheel. It is not necessarily a lean condition, but an inconsistent fuel delivery issue.” And over on page 40, leftmost column 2nd full paras. from top, “We use…(several types of fuel upgrades listed including) the same type of recirculation type (fuel) systems. Anyone capable of doing those type of things should be able to fix the problem.” But the material you referenced from the same article is consistent with my referenced material and your points are well taken. Especially when you mention in the article that short high hp bursts without those recommended fuel system upgrades, which included a fuel recirculation system per my reference, will, “However, agree it will take its toll over time.”

I guess from other engine builders also telling me almost the same thing but as causal of blown engines gets my attention big time. I think we are very close to saying about the same thing. Didn’t mean to come on too strong. I get tired as my job keeps cutting into my day. ha. Instead, ha, Oh I wish I were (actually) a 350Z turbo dealer. (Last sentence sang to the tune of “oh, I wish I were an Oscar Mayer weiner”) Take care.



Post Edited (Mar 9, 9:04pm)



For what it is worth, in my opinion, More Power does seem to know what he is talking about. He did make it clear that he didn't work for the APS company. It seems to me he just really likes what research that company has done. Anyway I personally appreciate his posts. But then again this is just my opinion.

==============
DocsZ
03 Touring
DC Headers
Injen Cold Air Intake
Underdrive Pullies
Invidia True Duel Exhaust



"Hey Bay: why not at least have an open mind on this one? Statistics will eventually bear you, or him, out. The Supra TT engine was a monster capable of supporting nearly 1000 hp with stock internals - so why would it be so unlikely that our VQ couldn't hold 500hp?"

Wow, smart guy there. Comparing an iron blocked I6 to an all aluminum V6. While you're at it why didn't you say "Hey, I've got two feet, and I can walk, so why can't the VQ hold 500 hp?" That makes as much sense and is as valid an argument. Way to tell us all you're an ignorant asshat, keep up the good work.

'71 240z - P30/ E31
6-1, 2.5 Exhaust, 3.7 Gears



Thanks for the kind words of support from several people. I will try to be more concise, LOL. I write like fat people diet, ha. (on and on and on..) I am in health care. If you were receiving health care, most of you would probably want this sort of attention to detail and thoroughness...

I just thought I'd post this because it is relevant to issues raised by some on this thread and a direct quote from Shariff from another forum. Shariff is the guy with the 416 wheel hp TT 350Z on the "350Z TT racing Subaru Turbo" video on this website a couple of weeks ago.

Shariff runs the Greddy TT kit on his 350Z. He knows enough to upgrade his fuel system (among other things) as it is inadequate in the Greddy kit. The problem is...Greddy like the other kits says their kit is "complete" as is. It is not.

Here is a direct quote from Shariff, who runs the Greddy TT kit in his 350Z, regarding the Greddy TT 350Z kit, " A dozen or so members have blown up their (350Z) motors with the Greddy kit, and many of those cars were professionally tuned as well. Just a word of caution for ya." A dozen blown 350Z engines, that he knows of, with just this one kit, is...disturbing.

Yes boost is boost as some have posted here. But fuel is also part of the equation. If you do not have a consistent, adequate fuel delivery system for the boost you are running and for the parameters of your engine management system, you will probably damage your engine at best or Kaboom at worst. Just like Russian roulette, it's just a matter of time and "do you feel lucky" (not all Greddys have blown engines, yet). No these other kit makers are not incompetent at all. They merely tried to cut costs by using a cheaper, lesser than robust, fuel system (among other things)...for marketing rather than engineering reasons... and long term...well some of you get the picture.



Post Edited (Mar 10, 1:57pm)



yeah guys, more power actually nows what he's talking about, its just idiots like ven100 who have to ruin decent threads because ven doesn't know jack sh!t, and he knows it, so he has to spoil it for everyone. Not once have I ever seen that old scumbag post anything positive or helpful. More Power, pay no attention to that AARP representative bastard we call ven, you do have technical knowledge and WE do appreciate your knowledge, so keep posting, ignore ven100 AKA smeagol.

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!




This coming from the person whose IQ rivals that of the snow on the ground outside and whose already been proven to be a fool.



ha, looks whos talking smeagol. Its funny how you speak in such authoritative tones, old man. Like what you say is absolute truth, its funny. You've proven nothing about my I.Q, or intelligence. Get off the pedestal, and join your local geriatrics team in a game of checkers. Seriously, you drivel over the same crap every other post, don't you have anything better to stab at then how low all our I.Q's are and how you are sooo much smarter? Come on, how boring. Oh and by the way, that supposed "burn" you last posted, was gay. I know grade school children that I attend to at my hospital that have a sharper sense of humor than you, buddy. Get a life old fart.....

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!




Isn't the new Vantage looks like 350z? Only Vantage has 450 horses, but 350z will have 500 soon.



okay, ven, let me get this straight. So just because you "posted" your opinion on this forum, that makes your baseless assumptions correct? If thats all you got, its no wonder why you don't make sense, and why everyone hates you. Very flawed argument, smeagol. Try again.

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!




ven is an old gay man



Alright, lets give a warm welcome to digital, who realizes that ven is gay, and will hopefully do the world a favor and die of old age very soon...

'93 Red TT 5 speed; Bone stock for now, but still kicks ass!




Here is a tech writeup by gq_626, who runs the Greddy twin turbo kit. APS research discovered this, BUT, the good news is that anyone can swap their unshielded crank angle sensor wire with a new shielded wire for ANY of the forced induction kits for our 350Zs. I think APS is going to make and sell a standalone version of this shielded CAS in case anyone is interested. I don't fully understand the technicalities of this shielded CAS wire, yet, but it is raising eyebrows as being a big deal for reliability especially among 350Zs running over stock power. Again bear with me, if any of you are even interested and this hasn't put all of you into a coma, ha, I am just now learning about this crank angle sensor issue, myself. But the APS kits are making amazing power and not having engine problems as a result - that is what has gotten my attention and is raising a big stir in the 350Z forced induction crowd. Again, only time will tell, but I think there is enough early evidence for us to really sit up, take notice, and monitor to see if these high hp set ups continue to be as reliable as the eary evidence indicates. Like I said, I intend to wait at least until the middle of this summer and to see if all this continues to hold up in the real world. I know and am in touch with a lot of plain customers like you and me running the APS TT kits and monitoring feedback. How well their engines actually hold up, over time and miles, in the real world out there will tell the tale. Here is the gq_626 writeup:


Crank angle sensor wire..MUST READ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, I think the cat is out of the bag on this crank angle sensor wire issue. APS has posted a detailed schematic on their website, so I feel this should be read by anyone that is running F/I on their motor. Especially those are building some very expensive forged motors.

There is some speculation, and apparently some testing by APS has confirmed this as well....that there is some kind of interference or anamoly with our crank angle sensor wire. Essentially, there is some noise in the signal that goes to the ECU, and under certain circumstances, this can generate a false or muddy crank angle input to the ECU. Obvisouly, if this happens, there is a chance that the coils may fire before the pistons are at TDC, and could contribute to detonation/preignition. Peter has also described this as "scattered ignition timing". It is something that occurs only under certain conditions, and only on certain cars. Some cars exhibit no anomolies...others do.

But APS felt it was important enough to include a new shielded crank angle sensor wire in their kit. You can see this on their website.

So...just to be safe, it would be HIGHLY ADVISIBLE for everyone with the Greddy and PE kits to immediately swap their unshielded crank angle sensor wire with a new shield wire. I would hate to see these new forged motors start blowing up due to this potential problem.

I was also thinking that some diodes on the line would also be helpful...what do the electrical experts think?



Post Edited (Mar 12, 5:33am)



It is easy for some to just throw up their hands concerning some of the engine problems with our 350Z engines running super and turbo chargers. And just say the 350Z engine is weak and just can't run boost, etc, etc. This is still a relatively new sports car with relatively high compression, but now that some time and R&D has occurred, we are finding out that our VQ engine is pretty strong and can run high HP. There are some little technical issues that are causing BIG problems. And much of these problems go back to the engineering of the forced induction kits on the market integrating with our VQ engine. I think APS, doing extra R&D and testing before releasing their kit to the market, has identified and sorted these things out. And people are going to be AMAZED at the power our 350Zs are fully capable of running with high reliability. (JWT is about to release their TT kit as well. We'll see.) But hey, I am skeptical myself and that is why I continue to monitor these 350Zs that are currently pulling 500 or more engine HP with stock internal engines. If they continue to be reliable with this kind of power over the long haul - you know like over 50,000 miles as TTZpower has mentioned, then the proof will be transparent. If not...then we will know that as well. At least things look very bright and we seem to be going in the right direction. Hey the Wright brothers didn't just jump from motorized kites to building 747s overnight either. No I do not think our current VQ will become the boost legend that the Z32 TT was or the TT Supra. But I think we will be able to run with some of the big dogs out there a lot more than is generally thought.

For you forced induction die hards out there, here is a tech writeup about the crank angle sensor wire problem that may (read almost surely) have caused some engine problems with 350Zs with forced induction. The writeup below is by Charles at CJ Motorsports in Chicago. BTW, Charles in NOT AN APS DEALER though he does install the APS turbo kits along with every other forced induction kit on the market for our 350Zs. He also installs many other performance products for our 350Zs. Charles not being an APS dealer hopefully will help alleviate some concerns regarding his objectivity. (He can install APS kits, but not being a dealer, he cannot tune or modify the APS unichip that piggybacks with our ECU and does not represent APS - I don't know all the legalities- I just know Charles is very knowledgeable and installs the APS and all the other 350Z FI kits, but is not an APS dealer.)

A real big advantage for APS is that some of their top engineers are very experienced engineers who formerly worked for Garrett Air Research, one of the premiere manufacturers of turbochargers and turbo systems.

Charles has developed his own standalone fuel system upgrade for our 350Zs that are running greater than stock power. It is becoming common knowledge that significant fuel system upgrades are needed for ALL 350Zs running over about 300 hp - which is virtually stock hp. Here Charles is discussing the crank angle sensor wire problem and the solution APS is using to solve this problem that the other kit makers have not even addressed or are even aware of (apparently) as being a problem. And some of his analysis of the APS fuel system upgrade that he noticed while developing his own fuel system upgrade. (Including the APS fuel return/recirculation subsystem that is needed, but not included in ANY of the other forced induction kits for our 350Zs.) The fact that Charles is actually in competition with APS as a fuel upgrade supplier adds credibility to his opinions.

Here is the write up of Charles at CJ Motorsports:

Many have known of this find by APS for quite a while now... but for some reason it was requested to remain a secret. Well its simple enough, its just a shielded cable that goes all the way from the sensor to the ECU plug. It will be simple enough and inexpensive for those of you to perform this mod.

This find by APS is the real product of R&D in their turbo system... if they didnt pick this up on the o-scope... it probably would have been a long long time before anyone else tried looking there... everyone else wanted to blame weak (engine) internals...

When doing my fuel system R&D on the 350z I realized that APS did their job... they didnt just slap a kit together... they tested their product and vehicle to find out what it really needs other then a turbo stuck on a manifold. We were bench testing the components of the fuel system and sliced up a pump assembly to verify its inner workings and thats when I said... gee... all the people with this AAM return fuel kit are never gonna get to use more than one side of their gas tank with this stupid plug that replaces the fuel pressure regulator... you need the fuel returned to that location to power the siphon jet... so then I say hey I think APS has their installation instructions on the website lets see what they did with their fuel return... we were assuming it was going to be rigged as well... well nope, we found the page and i said to myself "****... these guys werent ****in around, they bothered to actually find out that their fuel system is functioning correctly"

i said in a post a while ago that the APS kit will give 350z's the HP that other kit owners will blow their engine trying to obtain. Crank trigger interferance and dropping fuel pressure when your gauge says you have 1/4 tank is whats going to kill other guys every time.

APS kit gets 2 thumbs up from me.

-Charles
__________________
Charles - CJ Motorsports

CJM is a dealer of most performance products for the 350z.
Our website is unfinished but worth a look, I add new items every week.
We have experience with Greddy and APS Twin Turbo System, as well as Supercharger systems.



'03 Black Track 6MT - Stock Engine HP record (09/04-01/05) - First US 350z w/FCON - Daily Driven/Abused
DYNO | PICTURES | VIDEO

Tech/Tuning Questions? IM me at DLmr2transpose



Post Edited (Mar 12, 6:21am)

Author:  
Date:   Mar 12, 2005 7:38am

Exactly how old is Ven?

Author:  
Date:   Mar 12, 2005 9:13am

98 and a half