....basically, the tire wiggles back and forth .25".... Youch! Hey Pete, did Cantrell install the new setup yet?

Can you post a pic showing the outer spherical rod end connecting to the hub carrier? Sure thing...here you go: marcw, how's the clearance to the wheel? Could you still run 16" rears if you wanted? I am running 16"s in the rear!
The picture above shows Shinoo's SJ racing leggeros with 225/50-16 Toyo RA-1's Umm, Tim are you saying there IS a debate here regarding what is the superior toe link system fix? No, I'm countering your (and others) mis-information that the tow-link system needs fixing.

You (and the others) seem to feel that the Heim joint solution is the be all and end all, and totally gloss over the downsides.

All I'm saying (and all I ever said) is that the toe-link brace is probably not necessary for street driving. The downsides are the increased wear (which has already been confirmed by other's experiences), and increased chance of chassis damage in a minor bump to the side/wheels.

If you are going to track the car a lot or seriously then by all means get a toe-link brace - which ever one suits your fancy, but I wouldn't want one that required permanent modifications to the car (specifically the 10 mm bolt is not the weak point in the toe-link brace). The Lotus supplied Heim joint may be too small for long term use (it seems to wear out excessively quick), but a larger one could be sourced (with the proper bushing to size it to the 10mm bolt) that might last longer if necessary, without drilling out the chassis and a-arm bushings.

As for your descriptions being taken from some automotive web site, so what? It was misleading in that it portrayed the ball joint as being inferior to the Heim joint - it's not, it's different and serves different intended uses. The ball joint will last a long time and do a very good job during that time. The Heim joint will be more precise, but will only last for a relatively short time (I sound like I repeating my self, but this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in). The problem with the original design of the toe-link is that the ball joint is in single sheer and tends to place a dynamic bending load on that long mounting bolt that does double duty as the a-arm bolt. The "cure" places that joint in double shear and stops the dynamic bending loads on that bolt. It's that simple. Unfortunately, you can't do that with a ball joint system, so the Heim joint system is used instead. It "cures" one problem and causes another (the excessive wear). That may be a good solution depending on the intended uses of the car, or a bad solution depending on the intended uses of the car.

If you track the car OR use stickier than normal tires - you may want (or need) to install the toe-link brace.

If you drive on the street and do not use stickier than normal tires - you probably do not want to install the toe-link brace.

Bottom line is that the toe-link brace is not the be-all, end-all single most important thing to do to an Elise. I'm just trying to counter the people that appear to be trying to convince all Elise owners that everyone needs the toe-link brace - not everyone needs it. 7's was not able to deliver their upgraded parts in time so I went with replacement endlinks from Lotus. When these wear out I'll look into 7's again or Sector111. 7's was not able to deliver their upgraded parts in time so I went with replacement endlinks from Lotus.
How much were the replacements from Lotus? I looked on Sector 111's website last night but could not find their links. Id be interested to see how the final version of their solution looks. hi all!

our solution will be avalable next week. we're getting a small batch to start, but followed by a big shipment. we also have a unique feature with our kit that will be shown once we have the parts in hand and are ready for sale.


i'll start a new thread about them. sorry for posting here if i'm stealing anyones thread.... .....sorry for posting here if i'm stealing anyones thread.... No worries! You are providing the community with a very worthwhile product! We want to see it!!!
Can't wait to see... I have a 3 hr night HPDE coming up in 3 weeks and a FULL day track day on August 26th... I would like to have a brace by then just for my peace of mind...

Hey Tim... since quite a lot of time has elapsed since the event I guess I'll mention it. Waaaay back on Friday April 22, 2005 I was at FVMC's Lotus Driving Experience. A red 8-spoke NON Sports Pack Elise on Neovas broke it's driver side inbound rear toe link. They borrowed one from another car so the day's lessons could continue. There was no other damage to the car.

So I would totally agree with your "Tracking" OR "Stickier Tires"... it looks like too much tracking did this one in. I have pictures but was asked by Lotus at the time not to post or circulate them. Now that we know what the heck happened I don't think it would be a problem. Let me know if you guys would like to see them. So I would totally agree with your "Tracking" OR "Stickier Tires"... it looks like too much tracking did this one in. I have pictures but was asked by Lotus at the time not to post or circulate them. Now that we know what the heck happened I don't think it would be a problem. Let me know if you guys would like to see them. I'd like to see the photos. It would be especially nice if you have a close up photo of the actual break of the ball joint stud/bolt similar to the ones that were floating around showing the fatigue break in the original style shifter.

But that may not be available unless you crawled under the car or took the photos after they were removed from the car.

What we really need is a ball joint with a stronger stud/bolt that doesn't break... I'd like to see the photos. It would be especially nice if you have a close up photo of the actual break of the ball joint stud/bolt similar to the ones that were floating around showing the fatigue break in the original style shifter. But that may not be available unless you crawled under the car or took the photos after they were removed from the car. I don't have anything that close - they weren't letting us get that close to the cars - but I'll post what I have tonight when I get home. I don't think Lotus will mind at this point, considering they released a TSB about it... What we really need is a ball joint with a stronger stud/bolt that doesn't break...
Yes. I put 12,000+ miles per year on my car in addition to track days and I don't want to be swapping out heim joints more often than I change the oil. ...
If you drive on the street and do not use stickier than normal tires - you probably do not want to install the toe-link brace.
... But DO make sure the bolt is properly torqued! But DO make sure the bolt is properly torqued! Definitely! This may seem obvious to some members but for others I'd like to clarify something. The spherical rod end joints sometimes referred to by the brand name Heim are made by numerous manufacturers. They are available in various material grades, low carbon steel, 4130 chromemoly, and stainless to name a few. The balls and races can differ as well. They can be so called "maintenance free" with teflon lining. They can have seals, be entirely open or have boots enclosing the entire joint assembly. Most importantly, the load rating can vary greatly depending on the particular model. The load rating can also be stated in diferent ways. Also, the load rating increases tremendously when going up in sizes. There's more contact area for the wear surfaces in larger sizes as well as the shell of the joint and threaded shank being larger and able to offer more strength. Provided you select the proper size joint for the application, the sperical end joint should do it's job as well as anything you're going to come up with. For those of you wanting a teflon maintenance free joint, you will sacrifice some strength over metal to metal surfaces ones. As the metal to metal wears joints a little, however, you MAY experience some clacking noise. The teflon lined ones absorbs some of that. Some people won't want to pull their diffusers off of the car to lube the ones that have grease zerks. If you change your own oil, that shouldn't be a big deal, they're right in front of you. They will wear less generally over the teflon ones "provided they get greased". With zerks, you can use the grease of your choice, molybdenum works fine. New grease will flush out some of the old and also the dirt it attracts. The sealed units seem happier to retain their seals when not run at a high angles. Witness the seals on the Lotus end joints. They don't stay on at all it seems. At least mine didn't.
I see 2 main reasons to use aftermarket spherical "Heim" joints:

1. Lotus has given us reason to doubt the integrity of the ball and stud joint if it is subjected to stress levels it can't cope with. One member has had a stud break that seems to support this, although this hasn't been confirmed by sampling other units for metallurgical defects.

2. The cost for replacing the Lotus style spherical joint seems quite expensive in comparison to aftermarket joints of known quality, especially given the apparent short service life of the Lotus joint. Now this statement is based on the few worn Lotus joints that I'm aware of. I'm concerned because the wear has apparently taken place in a rather short period of time. I would suspect that there are others with like wear issues or perhaps many people haven't been to the track and others who haven't checked. I would invite others to respond if they have simillar observations regarding excessive wear of the Lotus spherical end joint. This may seem obvious to some members but for others I'd like to clarify something. The spherical rod end joints sometimes referred to by the brand name Heim are made by numerous manufacturers. They are available in various material grades, low carbon steel, 4130 chromemoly, and stainless to name a few. The balls and races can differ as well. They can be so called "maintenance free" with teflon lining. They can have seals, be entirely open or have boots enclosing the entire joint assembly. Most importantly, the load rating can vary greatly depending on the particular model. The load rating can also be stated in diferent ways. Also, the load rating increases tremendously when going up in sizes. There's more contact area for the wear surfaces in larger sizes as well as the shell of the joint and threaded shank being larger and able to offer more strength. Provided you select the proper size joint for the application, the sperical end joint should do it's job as well as anything you're going to come up with. For those of you wanting a teflon maintenance free joint, you will sacrifice some strength over metal to metal surfaces ones. As the metal to metal wears joints a little, however, you MAY experience some clacking noise. The teflon lined ones absorbs some of that. Some people won't want to pull their diffusers off of the car to lube the ones that have grease zerks. If you change your own oil, that shouldn't be a big deal, they're right in front of you. They will wear less generally over the teflon ones "provided they get greased". With zerks, you can use the grease of your choice, molybdenum works fine. New grease will flush out some of the old and also the dirt it attracts. The sealed units seem happier to retain their seals when not run at a high angles. Witness the seals on the Lotus end joints. They don't stay on at all it seems. At least mine didn't.
I see 2 main reasons to use aftermarket spherical "Heim" joints:

1. Lotus has given us reason to doubt the integrity of the ball and stud joint if it is subjected to stress levels it can't cope with. One member has had a stud break that seems to support this, although this hasn't been confirmed by sampling other units for metallurgical defects.

2. The cost for replacing the Lotus style spherical joint seems quite expensive in comparison to aftermarket joints of known quality, especially given the apparent short service life of the Lotus joint. Now this statement is based on the few worn Lotus joints that I'm aware of. I'm concerned because the wear has apparently taken place in a rather short period of time. I would suspect that there are others with like wear issues or perhaps many people haven't been to the track and others who haven't checked. I would invite others to respond if they have simillar observations regarding excessive wear of the Lotus spherical end joint.

honestly, i did not read this whole post. its late and i'm tired but i can tell you that our system will have teflon coated hiems by the industry leading manufaturer. basically, as good as they get. also they are a rare size so finding them was pretty hard.

ok guys, you need to get nordlocks for your car. our kit will include them but you can buy some and install them on your car. with or without the track bar, you can use it on the stock non track pack car.these will prevent your stock bolt/nut from backing out. the best and only solution that we know of.

call me @ sector111 and ask for me, pete. i'll tell you all about them. our solution should be available about the end of next week. i;ll be fitting a set on my car on tuesday (july 25th) for final fitment.

i'm very excited about it, they look outstanding and are a great solution. with the amount of autox, track, and canyon driving i do, it will be very beneficial. Pictures added as requested - they're originals so I'm only posting the links.

Sorry again for not having closeups.

Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4

Hope this helps! Pictures added as requested - they're originals so I'm only posting the links.
So it's wet there. Did that happen in the wet? Were you actually there when it happened? Did you see it happen? No, I'm countering your (and others) mis-information that the tow-link system needs fixing.

You (and the others) seem to feel that the Heim joint solution is the be all and end all, and totally gloss over the downsides.

All I'm saying (and all I ever said) is that the toe-link brace is probably not necessary for street driving. The downsides are the increased wear (which has already been confirmed by other's experiences), and increased chance of chassis damage in a minor bump to the side/wheels.

If you are going to track the car a lot or seriously then by all means get a toe-link brace - which ever one suits your fancy, but I wouldn't want one that required permanent modifications to the car (specifically the 10 mm bolt is not the weak point in the toe-link brace). The Lotus supplied Heim joint may be too small for long term use (it seems to wear out excessively quick), but a larger one could be sourced (with the proper bushing to size it to the 10mm bolt) that might last longer if necessary, without drilling out the chassis and a-arm bushings.

As for your descriptions being taken from some automotive web site, so what? It was misleading in that it portrayed the ball joint as being inferior to the Heim joint - it's not, it's different and serves different intended uses. The ball joint will last a long time and do a very good job during that time. The Heim joint will be more precise, but will only last for a relatively short time (I sound like I repeating my self, but this fact doesn't seem to be sinking in). The problem with the original design of the toe-link is that the ball joint is in single sheer and tends to place a dynamic bending load on that long mounting bolt that does double duty as the a-arm bolt. The "cure" places that joint in double shear and stops the dynamic bending loads on that bolt. It's that simple. Unfortunately, you can't do that with a ball joint system, so the Heim joint system is used instead. It "cures" one problem and causes another (the excessive wear). That may be a good solution depending on the intended uses of the car, or a bad solution depending on the intended uses of the car.

If you track the car OR use stickier than normal tires - you may want (or need) to install the toe-link brace.

If you drive on the street and do not use stickier than normal tires - you probably do not want to install the toe-link brace.

Bottom line is that the toe-link brace is not the be-all, end-all single most important thing to do to an Elise. I'm just trying to counter the people that appear to be trying to convince all Elise owners that everyone needs the toe-link brace - not everyone needs it.
Parts of your view vary with that of Lotus.