This past Thursday I was involved in a rear-end collision at very low speed (below 25 m.p.h.) when my ABS kicked in and prevented me from stopping in time to avoid a VW Beetle about 4 car-lengths ahead.

The damage was cosmetic, but extensive. I am awaiting the insurance estimate, but I predict that it will be between $12,000.00 and $15,000.00. I have recently replaced the front clam for some very minor damage in the area of the license plate mount that Lotus said cannot be repaired. The same with my rear clam, where my damage was at the right rear side marker light area. I have so far replaced both the front and rear clams for $20,000.00 (covered by insurance) for what I would say is minor damage that should have easily been repairable but for Lotus's policy that all damage is "structural", and the whole clam must be replaced. When this last damage is repaired, I am selling my car. I have not had any accidents in 30 years, but I have filed 3 claims on the Elise in the past 4 months because the repair costs are sky-high. Two of those repairs are ABS-related. One was simply hitting some tire rubber in the raod that could not be avoided. I must say, however, that my repair shop does beautiful work, and the paint finish is superior to the factory finish on the new cars that I have seen.

My point in this thread is to inquire of your experiences with Lotus's ABS. I had always heard about the Elise's wonderful brakes and how they patterned their ABS after Porsche, but this has not been my experience. Many times while driving and trying to slow quickly the ABS will kick in earlier than expected. The result is that my car seems to take a longer time to stop. My 1987 911, my 1988 911 and our 2002 BMW 325 all have great brakes that stopped the car right away in a very controlled manner.

There is no reason why I could not have easily avoided my accident last Thursday if the ABS had activated late in the game, as it is supposed to. If I could have had a "screeching stop" in the Elise, I would have been thankful and would have been out driving my wonderful car this weekend. As it is, I will probably sell it and buy a Honda S2000. What I give up in performance I will gain with a front bumper and lower repair costs, if that is ever again necessary. Three clam replacements...
I'm going to postulate that perhaps the problem isn't the breaks ? I haven't experienced an issues with the ABS. You will undoubtedly be happier with the S2000, although you might consider something in an Automatic to leave one hand free for the cellphone.

Seriously, the Lotus ABS is among the best I've ever seen. If anything, it kicks in later than most, letting you get that last bit of threshold braking in with a little chirp.

Any modern ABS system will extract most of the traction available from all four wheels. It's likely your problem was more tire/traction related, maybe a slippery road surface or unfavorable conditions. Or you could just be expecting too much from the wheels and not giving yourself enough room to stop. must be some sort of complete failure in the electronics?? - i can modulate lock-up/slip before the abs will fire. i have owned some comparable cars to yours, and i have to say the elise has far better brakes - although the pedal does not have the best feedback, but still its a good as say, bmw's feedback, and the performance is supeirior in the Lotus. you gotta push pretty darn hard to get the abs to fire if the system is working correctly - you should get THAT fix under warranty and stop getting new clams instead I stood on the brakes just the other day and thought to myself how good the ABS was. Seriously though, if you've had two accidents that you think that you would have avoided if the ABS had worked better then I think you are doing something wrong. Unless your brakes are seriously compromised (in a way that would be quickly obvious when your drive it), then I think you must be following people too closely/not paying attention to what is going on around you. This past Thursday I was involved in a rear-end collision at very low speed (below 25 m.p.h.) when my ABS kicked in and prevented me from stopping in time to avoid a VW Beetle about 4 car-lengths ahead.


Sorry to read about your loss I hope your car will be fixed soon. When I tracked my Elise I have also noticed that on some corners, especially up hill, the ABS appeared to kick in way too early. It felt as if the brake would fail for an instant and the pedal was pushed back by quite a lot. I'm not sure if that's normal, however, I think I would prefer the car without ABS. Anyone knows how to disable ABS or mount an ABS on/off switch?


AW Randy G, either something is wrong with the car (doubt it) or you must not be braking correctly (probably) or you're not paying attention (again, probably).

Your 911's don't have ABS, so the technique you use in those cars (threshold braking) won't work in an ABS equipped car in a panic stop situation. Many people use ABS incorrectly by not standing on the brakes hard and keeping the pedal down.

Looks like you may want to use some of the insurance money on a HPDE class. Your 911's don't have ABS, so the technique you use in those cars (threshold braking) won't work in an ABS equipped car in a panic stop situation. Many people use ABS incorrectly by not standing on the brakes hard and keeping the pedal down.

I have to completely disagree with the notion that you can't threshold brake an ABS car and that full force braking, using ABS, is the way to stop.

I threshold brake at the track in all my ABS equiped cars and can assure you that the car stops faster than if I allow the ABS to kick in. By definition, when ABS is activated, you are no longer utilize you cars full braking potential. The Opel Speedster the “Elise” build by Lotus for GM had an oversensitive ABS, too.
This has been corrected in the meantime and many of the older cars got the upgraded system, which has different electronics (hardware and or software)

There should be appropriate testing procedures to find out if Randy’s ABS is ok or not. It sounds like you are following people too closely. Regardless of the brakes being okay or not. All three incidents indicate too little distance - including the tire chunk. Create some space! Also, you can repair clams for minor stuff - it is done all the time. Hitting a tire tread chunk from a truck is likely to be a repairable thing. Randy Chase had some road debris repairs performed on his front clam for under $1,000.

Have the dealer drive your car ASAP (only cosmetic damage...so it is still driveable) to determine brake function.

The Elise has strong and capable brakes when all is well. So much so that you have to be careful that you are not rear-ended by the car behind you if an emergency arises! When you brake hard, you need to look frontwards *and* backwards via the rear view mirror. If you have somehow been triggering "ice mode" then your braking will be much reduced and you need to lift and reapply the brakes to regain full power. More details you find here:

http://www.vx220.org.uk/forums/index...ST&f=2&t=10934

hope this helps

Hartmut Rüdiger Also, you can repair clams for minor stuff - it is done all the time. Hitting a tire tread chunk from a truck is likely to be a repairable thing. Randy Chase had some road debris repairs performed on his front clam for under $1,000.

About $500.

I think there is this myth that says any damage to the clam warrants a replacement and some shops are happy to accept many thousands of dollars in repairs. Threshold braking on a track to slow down before a corner is different than a full panic stop in traffic to avoid plowing into the back of a VW stopped in front of you. When I rented an elise for two days the first 5 miles there was an SUV that just stop for no reason in the middle of the road. (I think he was checking out the elise in the rear view) but I didn't realize how fast I was going and stood on the breaks hard and the ABS never came on. the tires screeched a bit that was all. I finally hit the horn after a second and he took off again.

With my STi I noticed that I didn't realize how fast I was going and its even more deceiving in the elise. Two points.

1. The ABS can be difficult to tell it is working. This is a good thing.

2. I am befuddled as to how ABS coming on too soon can cause you to rear end someone. I find that the only time my ABS has kicked in has been when I deliberately tried to get it to do so - as a test. At that, it took three tries to get it to come on, since I was not pushing the brakes hard enough. I could not believe how well the Elise stops, and even though I thought I was stopping very hard, it wasn't even close to kicking on the ABS. Like I said, three time, each time pushing harder until I actually made the ABS activate.

Now when I drive my Miata, it feels like it is never going to stop in time. The Elise brakes are that good. Two points.

1. The ABS can be difficult to tell it is working. This is a good thing.

2. I am befuddled as to how ABS coming on too soon can cause you to rear end someone.

yeah, what Randy just said...

Sorry to read about your loss I hope your car will be fixed soon. When I tracked my Elise I have also noticed that on some corners, especially up hill, the ABS appeared to kick in way too early. It felt as if the brake would fail for an instant and the pedal was pushed back by quite a lot. I'm not sure if that's normal, however, I think I would prefer the car without ABS. Anyone knows how to disable ABS or mount an ABS on/off switch?


AW
If you don't want the ABS to come on, just pull the ABS fuse under the front access panel. Unlike other cars I own and have owned in the past, there's no warning light that will come on if the ABS fuse is blown or pulled - you just won't have ABS. When I purchased my car, it came from the previous owner with a blown ABS fuse (along with the radio fuse). I tried to test the ABS by standing on the brakes, but all I could do was lock the tires up. When I was checking the fuses to get the radio working, I found the blown ABS fuse too. Put a switch on that fuse if you want to be able to turn them on and off.

But to the original poster - When the ABS come on, you can STEER out of the way to avoid a collision. That's the benefit of ABS. If you've had multiple collisions while the ABS is on that you "couldn't avoid," then perhaps you're following too close for the speed you're driving. I make a habit out of always thinking about an "escape" direction to avoid the car in front of me. If there's no escape direction, such as a crowded highway with no shoulder, then I leave extra following distance. >>Unlike other cars I own and have owned in the past, there's no warning light that will come on if the ABS fuse is blown or pulled - you just won't have ABS.******br />
Your car may have a broken ABS warning light or something. Get this checked out right away! When I yanked my fuse to compare ABS versus no-ABS stopping, the yellow ABS light came on, and the speedo stopped registering. Replacing the fuse returned everything to normal.