Hi folks,
I've been searching, and can't find exactly what I'm looking for (someone with an 04, with my mods, + 3.91 gears and a CAM).
Basically, I'm looking to increase my low to mid range torque and powerband, so I'm thinking the 3.91 gears will take the CAM-HP from way up top and pull that power into my driving style - which is generally between 2000 - 4500RPM. Yes, I drive like a grandma, but like to get to my "cruising speed" "rather" quickly. I don't race, but like the "butt-o-meter" and whiplash feel of real power.
At the end of the day, I'm looking for reliability, as it's my daily driver. I spoke with the shop about the work, and the "stalling" and low idle people seem to be experiencing sounds more like a bad tune than anything - according to the shop out here which will do the work.
Anyway, if there's a medium -to-med large CAM that would work well with 3.91 gears (I want the powerband in the middle RPM range vs. way up top) let me know if you've done this same thing with 3.91 gears, and if your expectations and final HP/TQ numbers were as expected.
Best,
Quad
I'm running the Comp XR273HR, specs in my sig. It pulls hard in the mid-range and doesn't fall off until 6500. It's a small cam compared to most others but makes good power. I was running the cam a year before the procharger, and it was strong then too.
Take a look at this thread, it's a good tool for comparing camshafts.
Sounds like the typical 224-228 cam would go fine. I went a bit bigger. :shiner: But I also wanted to be one of the faster M-6 cam + bolt on LS1 GTO.
mega death :wall:
Hi folks,
I've been searching, and can't find exactly what I'm looking for (someone with an 04, with my mods, + 3.91 gears and a CAM).
Basically, I'm looking to increase my low to mid range torque and powerband, so I'm thinking the 3.91 gears will take the CAM-HP from way up top and pull that power into my driving style - which is generally between 2000 - 4500RPM. Yes, I drive like a grandma, but like to get to my "cruising speed" "rather" quickly. I don't race, but like the "butt-o-meter" and whiplash feel of real power.
At the end of the day, I'm looking for reliability, as it's my daily driver. I spoke with the shop about the work, and the "stalling" and low idle people seem to be experiencing sounds more like a bad tune than anything - according to the shop out here which will do the work.
Anyway, if there's a medium -to-med large CAM that would work well with 3.91 gears (I want the powerband in the middle RPM range vs. way up top) let me know if you've done this same thing with 3.91 gears, and if your expectations and final HP/TQ numbers were as expected.
Best,
Quad
Here's a very popular cam kit....
The "REBEL-TQ"
LSX Hydraulic Roller Camshaft Kit
Includes:
"REBEL-TQ" Camshaft
Specs: 224*-228*-111*-.600"-.600"
FTI GEN3 Dual Valve Springs
FTI Hardened Spring Locators
FTI Super Seven Ti Retainers
FTI Super Seven Valve Locks
Viton Valve Seals
FTI Pro-Series Pushrods
$925 with FREE shipping!
BIG TORQUE and broad street power
Great sounding "muscle car" lope
Great bolt in and start racing grind

Cam in my sig sounds like it might work. I have 3.91s and they work well together.
Ed what kind of power can you expect out of that Rebel TQ cam ?
(SJFGTO)
Are your power numbers RWHP and TQ numbers? WOW!
Did you do the CAM and 3.91 gears at the same time? If not, what order, and did you notice a significant "butt-o-meter" increase with each and then together? I suppose what I'm getting at is this - is the 3.91 gears a more significant "butt-o-meter" increase than the gears and CAM, or together, are they greater than the individual parts???
Other than the CAM, springs, pushrods, what else do I need for the CAM installation? I want to do it right, and make sure the car remains reliable.
(ED) what kind of power are you getting from that CAM, and do you find it reliable - my car is my DD, and I need it to last a long, long time...
Quad...
<<<<Thunder Racing Old Man Cam :oldfogey:
99-TR214/220-115-2 Thunder Racing Custom Camshaft
"Old Man Cam" - 214/220 .600/.523 115 LSA This is the perfect cam for someone looking for a stock range power band and stock sounding idle. Significant horsepower gains throughout the RPM range. No computer tuning required. Due to the fast ramp rate of this camshaft, the use of 1.8 rockers is not recommended.
what exactly are rockers?
I just ordered the gears - figure I will start there and see if it does what I hope - and go to the CAM if not "happy"
Quad
U want the very best street/strip everyday driver
Thunder Racing TR224 KIT is the one :)
(SJFGTO)
Are your power numbers RWHP and TQ numbers? WOW!
Did you do the CAM and 3.91 gears at the same time? If not, what order, and did you notice a significant "butt-o-meter" increase with each and then together? I suppose what I'm getting at is this - is the 3.91 gears a more significant "butt-o-meter" increase than the gears and CAM, or together, are they greater than the individual parts???
Other than the CAM, springs, pushrods, what else do I need for the CAM installation? I want to do it right, and make sure the car remains reliable.
(ED) what kind of power are you getting from that CAM, and do you find it reliable - my car is my DD, and I need it to last a long, long time...
Quad... pm sent (p.s. I did the cam a year before the gears but you would notice the gears on the ol 'butt-o-meter" even if you did those first).
U want the very best street/strip everyday driver
Thunder Racing TR224 KIT is the one :) Thats a good way to go to
3.91 gears turn our cars into beasts... More-so then they already are.
I would go with the cam Ed suggested
Shorter gears like 3.91s in a car allows for a larger cam without as much detrimental low rpm drama.
My LS1 was running a XER lobe Comp 234/240 duration, 598/608 lift @112lsa with decent manners. With 3.46s I would have been wishing for a 224/228 type cam.
Whatever you choose, with gears it will be better.
Do the gears first, then decide if you even want a cam.
A bolt on 3.91 GTO is about as sweet a cross between stock reliability and fun as you can get.
Caveat: If you go big hp, say >500 with n20, stroker, or forced induction, you may find that 3.91s leave you traction limited.
I may stick the 3.46s back in due to this. On a cam only+bolt ons you will have a blast.
Hi folks,
I'm starting with the 3.91 gears. I'm eyeing the SAP rear bumper, and IF the gears give me that "seat of the pants" oomph I'm hoping for, then I'll forgoe the CAM until next summer and get the SAP rear bumper - just love how it looks on the car....
Do I save any money if I have the shop buy the "kit" for me, or do I save if I buy everything and have them install? I like the idea of the shop ordering the kit as they know what springs, etc., should go with what CAM.... I don't know jack.
Best,
Quad
If the shop orders everything they are responsible for getting the right parts not you.
Also if the part breaks it's easy to warranty.
Hi folks,
I'm starting with the 3.91 gears. I'm eyeing the SAP rear bumper, and IF the gears give me that "seat of the pants" oomph I'm hoping for, then I'll forgoe the CAM until next summer and get the SAP rear bumper - just love how it looks on the car....
Do I save any money if I have the shop buy the "kit" for me, or do I save if I buy everything and have them install? I like the idea of the shop ordering the kit as they know what springs, etc., should go with what CAM.... I don't know jack.
Best,
Quad +1 ddawson You can save a lot until something goes wrong, the cam or kit or springs you buy fail, will the shop that just did the labor back it? Peace of mind has a lot to do with it unless you have the place, time, and experience to do it yourself. BTW EDC is an excellent vendor and his work is top notch. JMHO
have '04 M6 w/3.91s and a Streetsweeper HT 228/232 .611/.600 111 lsa. i have no trouble driving the car but the car is now like it's on steriods.... it makes the car mean :). Ed knows his stuff and the slightly milder cam with gears would still be a beast.
have '04 M6 w/3.91s and a Streetsweeper HT 228/232 .611/.600 111 lsa. i have no trouble driving the car but the car is now like it's on steriods.... it makes the car mean :). Ed knows his stuff and the slightly milder cam with gears would still be a beast.
.612 not .611 :)
I'm going to get on my podium a second here...:soapbox: :D
When looking at the cam "specs" in print, you are only looking at one point of the cam profile. Just because the listed numbers at .050" look similar to other profiles does not mean the two camshafts will react the same. I brought this up on another site but it was lost in all the rhetoric spread by rumormongers who have no real facts...
The REBEL series camshafts are not the same lobes as the competition. These lobes are inverted flank with a softer return ramp. As such, these lobes do not destroy the valvetrain when used for long runs. These are similar to the endurance grinds I do for AI and open track combinations. To make it a bit easier to conceptualize, these lobes feature a lobe area is larger than the XER lobes but less than the LSK lobes. I know most shops use these series of lobes that should help customers understand their configuration.
How much power with this particular grind make? It depends on the tuner and the conditions. I've see shops like New Era, Carolina Auto Masters and my buddy Jeremy Formato make some great numbers using my profiles. There are many others I've worked with but they aren't sponsors here and I'm not looking to get banned for mentioning them. ;)
If one of my customers wants results similar to what those guys obtain, I would refer them to a professional and even make an appointment with them. From what I've seen, when less than idea results are seen, it's always due to a shop's motives, and not the components used.
Depending on where the customer is located, I can usually get them into a tuning shop that doesn't have an "agenda" and will get them the power the combination is supposed to provide!
Ed
.612 not .611 :) i filed all my lobes down :D
I'm running the same cam as svede in a LS2, my car is my DD and just turned over 31k yesterday. Its a little bigger than what I think you want, I'd take a real look at the cam Ed recommended, he's a cam guru! When you talk about driving 2k to 4.5k rpms, the gears will not change your power in your RPM, just more leverage to get moving. So it will be a stock car with more leverage, if you do a cam, it will change how much power your car is making at 2k-4.5k. I do love the cam lope :hail: I will probably end up doing gears too though

I have already installed a Corsa sport cat-back. I have a set of Kooks long-tubes and Volant CaI in my garage which i will be installing as soon as my tuner is available. It wont be a canned tune, it will be legit.
Is there any other mods i should do before i get the tune so i get the most bang for the buck and not have to retune? Like a 160 degree thermostat? Get anything ported, like throttle body? Just any little thing i could tune for that i might add later, im hoping for 400 to the wheels, is that possible with bolt-ons?
oh ya what about plugs n plug wires?
Please, any input is greatly appreciated.
Brad
You need a set of wires so the stock ones dont touch the headers. Plugs wouldnt hurt also while ur down there might as well do it all at once.
UD pulley and you may want to check out ls2 portworks for ported/polished intake manifold and throttle body swap or purchase. There is a chance of 400rwhp but it is usually a little under with full bolt ons. It still will be a joy to drive, the only piece I don't have is the ported intake manifold. The great thing is if you do throw a cam in down the road you will be set for much bigger gains.
i dunno bout the UD pulley, i hear it affects the aC and heater.
It is possible to hit 400 with just bolt-ons. You will need an elec water pump the UD pulley, ported tb/manifold and no cats! But the only bolt-ons that you will have to tune for will be the tb/manifold. The Ud pulley and EWP won't need to be tuned for they don't add power to the engine they add power to the rear wheels, which is were it counts.
The UD pulley's reviews rarely have a problem with the AC or the Heater. What I would do is buy the pulley install it and keep your stocker along with the belt. It takes the same time to do the pulley swap as an oil change. If you do notice that the AC doesn't work (doubtful) as well as you want it to then swap the old one on and sell the used one, udp's sell like hot cakes.
I have CAI. JBA shorties, H/F Jba 2.5 catted mid pipes, Magna Flow X 2.5 cat back, ported TB, Wires, Stock tune. Hit 308 RWHP and 334 RWTQ two weeks ago on a Dyna-Jet dyno. It is just a LS1 though.

I am ready to buy an intake and want to know what is the best dry intake system and where is the best place to purchase it??????
AEM dryflow is one of the only manuf of an effective dry filter. But get ready to spend about $75 for the filter and $9 for their special cleaning solution. Works great, though.
Do a google search, and you'll find plenty of info.
I bought the CS Performance air box and used an Amsoil Ea filter. It doesn't need a cleaning solution, you can just vacuum it or gently blow it with an air compressor.
I bought the CS Performance air box and used an Amsoil Ea filter. It doesn't need a cleaning solution, you can just vacuum it or gently blow it with an air compressor. I did the same with the Lingenfelter intake. Works just fine and the Amsoil Ea filter I used actually has more surface area than the one that came with the Lingenfelter.
They really are great filters. I need to clean mine soon, too.
I am ready to buy an intake and want to know what is the best dry intake system and where is the best place to purchase it?????? I've been very happy with my AEM...
Bought it from...
Gravana Tuning -
http://www.gravanatuning.com/applica...ntake_Polished
.

I have been having issues with my car smoking when I first jump on it for a while and I always just assumed it was due to not having a catch can installed and oil accumulating in the intake/charge pipes. However, I got a chance to look things over today and there was oil on both turbos coming out from between the center section and turbine housing. The drivers side is acceptable, the passenger side is much worse.
I removed the inlet pipe from the passenger turbo and it was extremely wet inside and out. I also removed the clamp from the passenger side turbo and split the center section and turbine housing and oil dripped out from between the two, so it is obviously pushing oil past the seals. I don't see how it could be a defective turbo on both sides (hot and cold), so I am leaning more towards an oil feed/scavenge issue. Any ideas here? This is why I hate scavenge pumps lol.
Joe
Damn scavange pumps are always a PITA.
Tell me about it :(. I don't want to just go adding restrictors to the oil supply line(s) without talking to others first who may have had issues. I PMed Peter about it, hopefully he gets back to me with some info.
Joe
brain damage.
You're going to have to add restrictors to the oil feed lines. One of the dirty little secrets of the APS system. No big deal though.
my lines goign to the innercooler are soaked with oil and now it is so bad it actually get up to the intake, it also comes outth e Blow Off Valve... i have also email peter but now answer, i have actually email him twice... this is really getting to me sence i have had this problem sence day one!!!!!!!
You're going to have to add restrictors to the oil feed lines. One of the dirty little secrets of the APS system. No big deal though. I heard you had to do that with the old ball bearing setup and have had to do it in the past with other standard bearing turbos on turbo buicks, but was hesitant to just add restrictors to this kit without knowing if others are having the same issue. Don't want to kill a turbo :(.
i took off the innercooler today and opil actually RUNS out of it ! , it is the 3rd time i have had it offf and all 3 tiumes it has had about a pint of oil drain out of it.....so whats the deal whats APS going to do about it?????i have catch cans on my car ......yes cans, i have the normal one and the one on each side where the valve covers vent in to the intake tubes for the turbos....those get quite a bit of oil in them when you are at high RPMS pushing the oil to the top of the engine. but still have the oile problem even with catching all that oil.....
my lines goign to the innercooler are soaked with oil and now it is so bad it actually get up to the intake, it also comes outth e Blow Off Valve... i have also email peter but now answer, i have actually email him twice... this is really getting to me sence i have had this problem sence day one!!!!!!! Wow, sounds exactly like what mine is doing. I'm starting to get frustrated as well as others who have been pming me about the lack of support after the sale from APS :(. I heard that you have to deal with someone else regarding parts and warranty, but others have told me that they contacted that person also with no reply. Sucks, I'd hate for their reputation to go sour over such trivial stuff.
Hey- you said your hose was sucking flat in your car- did it cause any problems? I'm having an issue with the car choking off if I floor it at a high RPM and I have a feeling it is the hose collapsing when I first stomp it. Did you ever come up with a price for that other hose? I would really like to replace mine and just splice it in the center to add reinforcement to prevent it from collapsing. I can do that with the one I have now, but then I would have the splice where the MAF was and then a splice int he center- I don't want all those clamps on there, it will look like ass lol.
Joe
i went to LOWES and got i think it was 3" PVC and cut a small piece and put it in teh line atached it with screws on the bottom and th esides where you cant see them and it fixed the problem for me....my was choking bad!!!!
yea same here i havenot got an answer from peter sence i got the Kit installed, i have asked lots of questiond and i never get an answer its really PISSING me off....i sure hope they clean up there act soon or i will change what i said in the costumer section about them!!! what happend when we need replacement parts???? HE DOESNT ANSWER!!!! i have asked for a A/C line now TWICE and no answer....ask fro prices of things and no answer!!! whats the deal??
i went to LOWES and got i think it was 3" PVC and cut a small piece and put it in teh line atached it with screws on the bottom and th esides where you cant see them and it fixed the problem for me....my was choking bad!!!!
yea same here i havenot got an answer from peter sence i got the Kit installed, i have asked lots of questiond and i never get an answer its really PISSING me off....i sure hope they clean up there act soon or i will change what i said in the costumer section about them!!! what happend when we need replacement parts???? HE DOESNT ANSWER!!!! i have asked for a A/C line now TWICE and no answer....ask fro prices of things and no answer!!! whats the deal?? OK, so your's was choking also, then it sounds like exactly what mine is doing. I thought it was something in the tune for the longest time until I realized how bad the hose collapsed. Must be that since it is what you encountered also.
As for parts, I spoke with Loboost today and he said that Peter is going to post contact info for parts and such since he really doesn't handle that side of the business. It does get extremely frustrating though. Most of the stuff I would need, I could fab myself, but it does make me nervous wondering what will happen should I ever need and specific parts :(.
Joe
i wasnt going to say anything because i just figured it was just me for some reason, but now that i see th at there is others havein problem i will voice it now....there costumer servise is really lacking lately!!!
yep mine was doing teh same thing, but th e PVC fixed it, !!!!
What hose is collapsing?
The upper intercooler hose to the throttle body. When I go WOT at a high RPM, it sucks it flat and the car chokes off until it opens back up. Les said his 1st gen kit doesn't do it, so your's may not do it either.
Joe
I have been having issues with my car smoking when I first jump on it for a while and I always just assumed it was due to not having a catch can installed and oil accumulating in the intake/charge pipes. However, I got a chance to look things over today and there was oil on both turbos coming out from between the center section and turbine housing. The drivers side is acceptable, the passenger side is much worse. Joe, you need to check your engine oil pressure, if you have higher than stock oil pressure (this can caused by a high volume/high pressure oil pump or increased engine rpm over the stock engine rpm limit) then you may need to restrict the oil supply to the turbos.
I removed the inlet pipe from the passenger turbo and it was extremely wet inside and out. I also removed the clamp from the passenger side turbo and split the center section and turbine housing and oil dripped out from between the two, so it is obviously pushing oil past the seals. I don't see how it could be a defective turbo on both sides (hot and cold), so I am leaning more towards an oil feed/scavenge issue. Any ideas here? This is why I hate scavenge pumps lol. If you have excessive oil on the inlet side of the air entry ducts you will need to run a good oil catch can system other wise you will continue to flood the inlet side of the turbos with oil and some of this engine oil will be pumped into the engine and consumed which will cause some blue smoke, hope that helps, :)
Peter
my lines goign to the innercooler are soaked with oil and now it is so bad it actually get up to the intake, it also comes outth e Blow Off Valve... i have also email peter but now answer, i have actually email him twice... this is really getting to me sence i have had this problem sence day one!!!!!!! I don't have any emails form you, maybe our server is filtering your emails...............might be best to pm me. :)
Thanks,
Peter
well i have used the same email address i always have and you just all of a sudden just stopped answering me......
Joe, you need to check your engine oil pressure, if you have higher than stock oil pressure (this can caused by a high volume/high pressure oil pump or increased engine rpm over the stock engine rpm limit) then you may need to restrict the oil supply to the turbos.
If you have excessive oil on the inlet side of the air entry ducts you will need to run a good oil catch can system other wise you will continue to flood the inlet side of the turbos with oil and some of this engine oil will be pumped into the engine and consumed which will cause some blue smoke, hope that helps, :)
Peter this was one of the emails i sent you , i had this problem...i told you i though it was comming from teh valve cover lines and going into the intake for the turbos, and all i got from you was to put a catch can on...well today i drained my innercooler and cleaned out the oil out of the tubes so now ill see if the catch can does anything, or catch CANS i should say.....i sure hope it does because i hate oil comming out of my BOV.....
Great, I Hope We Find A Resolution Before I Start My Install... I May Be Adding Two Huge Cats And Don't Need To Burn Them Or My Money Out With Extra Oil Getting Through...
I Hope We Can Get A Straight Answer And Not A Short Vague One As Is Usually Given By Aps.
Just restrict the oil feed. Easiest way is to braze the feed fitting and drill a smaller hole.
What weight oil are you running and what do they reccomend? Thinner oil may be the culprit.
Peter is very reluctant to reccomend a particular size oil restrictor since there are two many variables that effect oil pressure oil weight, engine wear, brg clearance type of pump, how high the mrtor spins etc all effect pressure. I do know that the oil pressure should be around 40psi to 45psi at max rpms anything higher than that will probably overwelm the seals and cause this issue. Guys you need to be very careful and physicaly measure the oil pressure reaching the turbos by Teeing in to supply line with a mechanical oil gauge temporarliy until the correct pressure is reached. That said anything smaller than say .060 is asking for trouble remember oil starvation is not a warrantable matter with almost any turbo company that I know of except Turbonetics has limited time 1 year no questions asked warranty.
This is not a APS only issue heres a link from LS! tech about oil restrictors. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...=730727&page=1 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...=569238&page=1
Les
my lines goign to the innercooler are soaked with oil and now it is so bad it actually get up to the intake, it also comes outth e Blow Off Valve... I'd guess that you have very high crankcase pressure which is pushing excess oil into the air entry ducts.............have you done a Cyl leak down test on your engine?
Peter
i took off the innercooler today and opil actually RUNS out of it ! , it is the 3rd time i have had it offf and all 3 tiumes it has had about a pint of oil drain out of it.....so whats the deal whats APS going to do about it?????i have catch cans on my car ......yes cans, i have the normal one and the one on each side where the valve covers vent in to the intake tubes for the turbos....those get quite a bit of oil in them when you are at high RPMS pushing the oil to the top of the engine. but still have the oile problem even with catching all that oil..... Are your catch cans connected to the the turbo air entry ducts?
Peter
what happend when we need replacement parts???? HE DOESNT ANSWER!!!! i have asked for a A/C line now TWICE and no answer....ask fro prices of things and no answer!!! whats the deal?? I don't have any emails form you, I've just checked my inbox again though I have just answered your pm that you sent me an hour ago. :)
Thanks,
Peter
Peter is very reluctant to reccomend a particular size oil restrictor since there are two many variables that effect oil pressure oil weight, engine wear, brg clearance type of pump, how high the mrtor spins etc all effect pressure. I do know that the oil pressure should be around 40psi to 45psi at max rpms anything higher than that will probably overwelm the seals and cause this issue. Guys you need to be very careful and physicaly measure the oil pressure reaching the turbos by Teeing in to supply line with a mechanical oil gauge temporarliy until the correct pressure is reached. That said anything smaller than say .060 is asking for trouble remember oil starvation is not a warrantable matter with almost any turbo company that I know of except Turbonetics has limited time 1 year no questions asked warranty.
This is not a APS only issue heres a link from LS! tech about oil restrictors. http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...=730727&page=1 http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showth...=569238&page=1
Les
I had the exact same problem and was asked what weight oil I was using. I got an answer to a specific sized hole to make in the feed fitting. Problem solved/never had another issue with the turbos.
Just trying to lend a hand to a fellow TT'er.
Wow, sounds exactly like what mine is doing. I'm starting to get frustrated as well as others who have been pming me about the lack of support after the sale from APS :(. I heard that you have to deal with someone else regarding parts and warranty, but others have told me that they contacted that person also with no reply. Sucks, I'd hate for their reputation to go sour over such trivial stuff. Joe, I don't work any spare parts sales and I have answered all of my pms to GTO customers (and many pms to yourself over the last 4 months or so), if you need any spare parts then please email ben@airpowersystems.com.au and he will assist you. :)
Thanks,
Peter
I had the exact same problem and was asked what weight oil I was using. I got an answer to a specific sized hole to make in the feed fitting. Problem solved/never had another issue with the turbos.
Just trying to lend a hand to a fellow TT'er. Tangle I am agreeing with you and I could reccomend a particlur size but the problem is there will be a couple of guys out there who happen to have weak oil pump or a little extra clearance and they will smoke the turbos and then start looking for who to blame. So I personally believe without using a gauge to verify that pressure is correct some will be gambling but if I was a gambling man I would start with a .090 restrictor but never go below .060 regardless of pressure since the volume of oil reaching the turbos will be reduced to much.
Les
As for parts, I spoke with Loboost today and he said that Peter is going to post contact info for parts and such since he really doesn't handle that side of the business. It does get extremely frustrating though. .
Joe Joe, I barely get enough time to answer the many dozens of emails and pms that I receive every day from customers (up to a 100 pms/emails per day) without taking on other responsibilities (spare parts sales) so please contact the APS office on either of the emails addresses below,
Many thanks,
Peter
ben@airpowersystems.com.au or info@airpowersystems.com.au