I am hearing binding / grinding noise from the rear of the car when I turn. The turn can be anything from a u turn to slight bend in the road (low speed) and I hear something binding up in the back. I can tell that the springs in the rear are sagging. I am going to double check the ride height to verify. I have probably less then 1/4" from the bottom of the fender to the top of the tire. The car is completely stock (suspension wise) and has 15k miles. Time for a trip to the dealer?
I have a few other warranty items I need to have looked at, anybody wanna take a shot at guessing what is binding up?
Do dealers give you a rental car while you have warranty work done? I have never used a warranty before, so this is a 1st.
I am hearing binding / grinding noise from the rear of the car when I turn. The turn can be anything from a u turn to slight bend in the road (low speed) and I hear something binding up in the back. I can tell that the springs in the rear are sagging. I am going to double check the ride height to verify. I have probably less then 1/4" from the bottom of the fender to the top of the tire. The car is completely stock (suspension wise) and has 15k miles. Time for a trip to the dealer?
I have a few other warranty items I need to have looked at, anybody wanna take a shot at guessing what is binding up?
Do dealers give you a rental car while you have warranty work done? I have never used a warranty before, so this is a 1st. GOOD Luck, most dealers will Not give you a loaner car as for the sagging rear springs the Dealer will install GM OE springs back in your car.howis the inner wear on your rear tires??? ....Frank
Try having the rear diff fluid changed and re-add the Type F modifier to the fluid, this may or may not take care of the problem with the grinding when turning, but it's a good bet it will
Thanks for the heads up. I checked my ride heights. On the drivers side, I am 577.55 and 590mm on the passenger side. This is with less then a 1/4 tank of gas. I just swapped diff fluid last weekend. I added 1 oz of the friction modifier and used Mobil 1 75-140 gear oil.
The rear tire wear looks to be even, from under the car.
did the noise start after you did the diff service, the GTO requires a different modifier than other GM's
Your rear is sitting about 25-30mm low on the drivers side, but some of that may be due to the surface not being 100% level
I used off the shelf modifier. I just ordered the GM rear gear oil and the GTO specfic modifier I found looking in the drivetrain section. How about the ride heights? Do you think that the heights I listed warrant a trip to the dealer or is there a pedders shop near me?
Ted Wiens is in Vegas, they are a Pedders Dealer
GM won't do anything most likely
Craig Dillon
Ted Weins Tire and Auto Centers
9445 S. Eastern
Las Vegas, NV 89123
O (702) 938-8473
F (702) 938-8482
http://www.tedwiens.com/index.htm
tedwiens9445@earthlink.net
Good info! Is it going to be a problem to drive the car with the current fluid until the GM fluids show up. I paid for the 2nd day air service. With christmas, I doubt it will be here until Friday or so.
you'll be fine

I've search here and on a lot of other LS1 formus and really don't have the answers I'm looking for. ...so sponsors feel free to respond. ...people with turbo or supercharged applications I really don't need a list of who's systems you have or what it buys you because I'm only interested in creating a thread specifc to NA applications. ...if you have specific experience or knowlage about Methanol on a NA LS1 that's what I'm looking for.
In my case during 90 degree temperatures this summer at Pontiac Performance Nationals my car ran a very consistent 12.3x. As the temperature dropped so did my ET. ...all the way down to 11.76 this fall. There were absolutly no changes made to the car during this time. So my thought is to install a Meth or Meth/water mix to cool the intake air during the summer. I'm going to be moving back to FL in a little over a year so fixing this heat problem now will pay off later.
I'm looking for other NA goats that have used meth to help solve this same problem or vendors who may have solved this problem on this or other NA applications. I know Snow has a NA system..has anyone used it?
You may also want to consider
www.AlcoholInjectionSystems.com I am supercharged but also run their system. Nice clean setup. Runs fine.:cool:
You may also want to consider
www.AlcoholInjectionSystems.com I am supercharged but also run their system. Nice clean setup. Runs fine.:cool: Know anyone using it NA?
Just throw a small dry shot on it. Same result, less head ache.
Meth injection is a crutch for the FI guys, and it would be even more of a crutch on NA.

3 Attachment(s) Heres a few pics of my gto with sidepipes that i installed in my shop. It took some time to trim the skirts but turned out amazing. Either like em or hate em i'm just sharing my exhaust. If you'd like to get these for your gto just let me know and i'll see what i can do for ya. If you wanna hear it you can visit my video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB1O6dFH1BI
How is the heat around them?
Your car butcher away... :barf::barf:
Need better bigger pics please.
3 Attachment(s) I wish i had better pics sorry, I'll try to get some more up. No i had no heat issues whatsoever, and i've had em glowing near the front. I'm running longtube headers with no cats, she would throw out some good flames : ) And like I said, like em or hate em i don't care. Enjoy!
My work web browser is blocking youtube. Booooo. I wanna hear these now!
sweet jesus what have you done to your car
weren't you trying to sell that car on ebay? Did it not sell?
Bought the car off EBAY? Or are you the guy who was selling it?
3 Attachment(s) Yes i did sell that on ebay, sorry i should be putting everything in past tense lol. Since i'm not an owner anymore i'd like to help you guys customize your cars. I loved how mine turned heads everywhere! And if anyone has any questions about clearance issues; i Didn't have any at all and they didn't touch the curbs. The youtube video doesn't do it justice for what it really sounds like, its so deap you could really feel it in your chest and the tone traveled for miles, and yes i mean miles; we tested it lol. I got pulled over 3 times; and everytime the cops commented that they liked the custom exhaust and then started BS'n about cars and let me go clean. I'm sure if i still had the car i wouldn't have my license though, my luck could have only lasted so long you know. Anyway here are some more pics. Thanks for looking!
its different! probably the best you could have pulled them off... i just dont like them! But we all have different tastes so more power to ya
Nicely done. Not for me.
Looks like a nice car! (Except for those chrome things under the kick panels...) ;)
I give you credit for being adventurous but they just look out of place on the car. And waaaay too low.....
Congrats! They look well done. How's the ground clearance with them? Ain't exactly my cup-o-tea, but I appreciate anybody modding to suit their own taste instead of just following the herd, especially when done yourself...
Thanks for understanding guys, I've noticed that gto owners arn't crazy about em, but almost 95 percent of guys that have seen them in person loved em for some reason, don't ask me why lol. I think its cuz here in Iowa everyone has trucks and find things like chrome stacks on trucks sweet, so in comparison they think chrome pipes on a muscle car are in comparison of being "sweet". I'm pretty positive I won't put these on my next gto. My ultimate goal is to someday build up an A4 twin turbo GTO all caged and tubbed for drag and still street legal. But that'll probably never happen.... Well i gtg, i'll stop back in few days.
Interesting......
Most of us have already seen you GTO.





Nicely done. Not for me. My thoughts exactly. They really do look nicely done. I don't think that you could have done it any better.
Those actually sounds pretty damn good....
:wall: As long as "YOU" like it. Personally I don't care for them at all, they just don't seem to fit the look of the car.
Personally I like them!! I know I would burn my leg on the pipe getting in or out of the car though. It would need some kind of SS slotted cover over them.
Nice Job!!!
ROK
.
Ok i know there is a lot of guys here that don't like them because they're out of place, or too hot, or for older cars. Well i'll agree they don't go with the car, i didn't have the funds to add rims to match and do more work for them to "fit in" if thats possible. Also I mainly put the pipes on because these cars are to dull and look too much like grand prix's, and i thought old school sidepipes would help relate the gto to its relation with the older generation of the gto. And lastly; the pipes only get hot in the front, before they enter the built in muffler, ---------as soon as i shut the car off i can open the door and grab the pipe without burning my hand, NO JOKE----- And yes i admit it, i'm a 19 year old redneck who owned a new school gto mixed with the old school mods. I had my fun with it, but with gas prices i sold it and bought a tdi jetta getting over 50 mpg. The new owner can now have all the fun with the goat all he wants now, and the pipes can be easily taken off in 10 minutes. The car was fast, fun, and loud and that's all i cared about. I'm sorry to have upset you guys for doing this simple mod to my car. It was a salvage car anyway so i didn't care about cuttin it up or anything. And since i'm not a gto owner anymore i'll be leaving the site. Thanks for the kind replies, merry christmas to everyone.
Ok i know there is a lot of guys here that don't like them because they're out of place, or too hot, or for older cars. Well i'll agree they don't go with the car, i didn't have the funds to add rims to match and do more work for them to "fit in" if thats possible. Also I mainly put the pipes on because these cars are to dull and look too much like grand prix's, and i thought old school sidepipes would help relate the gto to its relation with the older generation of the gto. And lastly; the pipes only get hot in the front, before they enter the built in muffler, ---------as soon as i shut the car off i can open the door and grab the pipe without burning my hand, NO JOKE----- And yes i admit it, i'm a 19 year old redneck who owned a new school gto mixed with the old school mods. I had my fun with it, but with gas prices i sold it and bought a tdi jetta getting over 50 mpg. The new owner can now have all the fun with the goat all he wants now, and the pipes can be easily taken off in 10 minutes. The car was fast, fun, and loud and that's all i cared about. I'm sorry to have upset you guys for doing this simple mod to my car. It was a salvage car anyway so i didn't care about cuttin it up or anything. And since i'm not a gto owner anymore i'll be leaving the site. Thanks for the kind replies, merry christmas to everyone. I see where you are coming from some looks just aren't for everyone thats why I said as long as YOU enjoy it is all that matters/mattered. At the end of the day you make the payments not anyone else.
And Merry Christmas to you too.
it look good , but it to much chrome and it stands out to much ,i would do it if they
had them in black crome
oh no!
i think i have seen it all now
I remember the 70s when sidepipes were on every other Camaro and van. I always thought they were too cool. Fast forward to the 2000s. I still like them on second gen Camaros. Vans? eh, I guess. On a new GTO they grab my gag reflex faster than a shot of scotch. But hey, thats just me. Looks like the install was well done.
I would like a set of those.......
To poop on
Bet they are real ground dragers.......
I would like a set of those.......
To poop on lmfao!:slap:

Anytime I read about VE tuning, I see that you're supposed to drive as smoothly as possible. Is this primaraily because you want to hit as many cells as possible, or will abrupt throttle inputs throw off the results of the scan. I guess what I'm asking is that if I happen to need to nail the throttle to pull out onto a highway, should I just start over?

I'm reading through this guide posted in the HPT vs. EFI thread here:

Here's an adaptation of the ls1 SD tuning guide but it should get you moving in the right direction at least http://www.thetuningdoctor.com/HPTun...uningGuide.doc This has me worried though...I have Kook's high-flow cats on...should I still disable Cat overtemp protection?

Caution: This can damage catalytic converters if you still have them on your car. Thanks,
Gerry
I think the goal is to stay out of PE for some reason
I think the goal is to stay out of PE for some reason Thats correct. You need to hit as many cells as possible, as many times as possible without going inot PE. Personally, I set the PE to 0 up to around 4200. Just for tuning the VE, I then set it back where I want it after I'm done with the VE tuning.
Thats correct. You need to hit as many cells as possible, as many times as possible without going inot PE. Personally, I set the PE to 0 up to around 4200. Just for tuning the VE, I then set it back where I want it after I'm done with the VE tuning. Yep, that's what I do also. Contrary to what most of the write ups say, don't disable PE. Just delay it. Never run without PE, IMHO.
If you nail the throttle you will fly through alot of cells so quickly that you wont get sufficient data. The goal is to hit as many cells as possible and to be in each of them for long enough to get at least 25 (not set in stone, just the # I use) hits and then use the average of those hits as your number for that cell. This is not to say that you dont need throttle transitions because you do, and that is mostly what VE is for if you still have your MAF, but you need repeated throttle transitions to hit those cells multiple times.

In your example of needing to nail the throttle, the scan is still perfectly good if you use the average. IMO, you want to drive it while youre tuning the same way you will drive it everyday.

If youre really worried about your cats wait until you get a few passes of VE done so that youre somewhat close before disabling COT.
Abrupt throttle transitions cause false AFR readings. EFI Live has a filter which only accepts data in a particular cell if throttle rate of change is below a certain figure. I don't know if HPT can be configured similarly, but I suspect it can.

The goal of VE tuning is to have commanded AFR equal to measured AFR. If you're using the technique of plowing AFR errors back into the VE table, the engagement of PE doesn't affect this process. All you really need to do is keep it out of closed loop, shut off DFCO, and keep throttle transitions slow and smooth to maximize your valid cell count.
cat protection is deleted in my set-up, it skews control of startup, idle control. cat light-off/protection is an emissions related oem strategy or if you get a fuel delivery problem and end up with excess fuel potentially damaging your cat.
Try to hit as many cells as possible and try not to use abrupt throttle transitions even if you don't enter PE. It will give you more accurate data and a better tune.
In HPT you can filter out differnt values. If your PE is enabled at 50% thottle, then filter out all values over 50% tps. There is a demo on how to configure your scanner charts in the help files of hp tuners.
Dougie
Basically you need to set up to run open loop and disable any interfering tables (DFCO COT and the like). Keep this as your setup or OL/logging tune. After several logging sessions you can just paste your VE tables back into your performance tune with all parameters enabled you wish to use. Setting this up is made simpler by using the HPT tuning guide.
Thats correct. You need to hit as many cells as possible, as many times as possible without going inot PE. Personally, I set the PE to 0 up to around 4200. Just for tuning the VE, I then set it back where I want it after I'm done with the VE tuning. Unforutnately Staying out of PE in incorrect.

You do not need to stay out of PE when tuning. It really does not matter if you go into it, infact you probably should go into it while tuning.

The car commands a 12.0 on PE, so if you hit PE it doesn't say well you are 10% off of 14.7 or something like that. It measures exactly how far off you are from that 12.0 while taking into account your PE factor (how much extra fuel it is throwing in to richen it up). Thats how you are tuning the rest of the VE table, except the commanded AFR is 14.7. In PE it is a different commanded number, but the car knows this and HPT takes the error of commanded to actual.

So when you hit cells while in PE mode it is just as if you hit it outside of it. So don't worry about hitting it, you're just hitting another cell. Infact you should hit it to get accurate data.
Unforutnately Staying out of PE in incorrect.

You do not need to stay out of PE when tuning. It really does not matter if you go into it, infact you probably should go into it while tuning.

The car commands a 12.0 on PE, so if you hit PE it doesn't say well you are 10% off of 14.7 or something like that. It measures exactly how far off you are from that 12.0 while taking into account your PE factor (how much extra fuel it is throwing in to richen it up). Thats how you are tuning the rest of the VE table, except the commanded AFR is 14.7. In PE it is a different commanded number, but the car knows this and HPT takes the error of commanded to actual.

So when you hit cells while in PE mode it is just as if you hit it outside of it. So don't worry about hitting it, you're just hitting another cell. Infact you should hit it to get accurate data. Word...
Considering Open loop & pe go hand in hand I've always setup my part throttle driving cells for stoich & then setup my pe tables as I would like to see them once I'm finished. Once you've dialed in your wot VE for whatever you've commanded(say 13.0:1) theoretically you can move that commanded up or down till you reach optimum power on the dyno or track and not have to worry much about redialing in your VE table.
I've seen some guides say to completely disable PE at wot which if your running a 2 or 3 bar setup and are a newbie at tuning and listen to that advice your only setting yourself up for trouble.
As for the cat protection its mainly for extended periods of time at wot for the most part you don't have much to worry about but theres always going to be a chance of damaging something. COT is an adder though that can skew your numbers, having less(preferably no) adders applied will make tuning much easier & more enjoyable since you won't be chasing your own tail.
-Bill
I'm finding paragraph #4 confusing. My values are 10.0 as shown in the examples for tables Gas (Gear), Gas(P/N) and both alchohol tables as well. Do I set those to 1.0?

Also, it says there are 4 mode tables, but I see five. Airflow Gain, IVT Gain, Inj Temp Gain, AIR Gain (Gear), and AIR Gain (P/N).

Do I set ALL of these, along with EQ min to 0 Edit: I mean set to 1.0?

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Looks like I'm going to have time to make one pass at this, then will need to eval what I did and try again some other day. I thought I'd already be back posting results at this time, but I got a little sidetracked this morning.

Gerry
i've found that to really fine tune your VE (i need to as i run speed density) after i did a bunch of AFR error adjustments to the VE table it still looked a little spikey. i went to the chart display and started looking at where i had a fairly steady AFR reading and calculated the percent error (the actual AFR divided by 14.681). i then multiplied that in the correct VE cell. as i knew that cell was now correct i then went to the VE table 3D MAP and hand smoothed it in between points that i had manually calculated. i ended up with a smooth transition table that gives a great AFR
I'm finding paragraph #4 confusing. My values are 10.0 as shown in the examples for tables Gas (Gear), Gas(P/N) and both alchohol tables as well. Do I set those to 1.0?

Also, it says there are 4 mode tables, but I see five. Airflow Gain, IVT Gain, Inj Temp Gain, AIR Gain (Gear), and AIR Gain (P/N).

Do I set ALL of these, along with EQ min to 0 Edit: I mean set to 1.0?

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Looks like I'm going to have time to make one pass at this, then will need to eval what I did and try again some other day. I thought I'd already be back posting results at this time, but I got a little sidetracked this morning.

Gerry you set EVERYTHING to 1.0 which would result in stoichX1.0
See the problem is in stock form its like this
(10x10x10x10x1.0x.10x1.05x1.05)xstoich=whatever lol
Most people want to know the answer now so its simpler when I state 1x1x1x1=1 lol which is why I just say set all of the multiplers to 1 rather than trying to back calculate everything.
Nother thing you could do is look at a, 06' TBSS file, same pcm as you guys but GM sets up the OL tables COMPLETELY different ie 1x1x1x1=1
Don't ask why they decided on a different(read more confusing) strategy on gto's in this area.
1 Attachment(s) Here's what I'm getting ready to flash and drive.

Can someone please tell me if those 4 tables
Open Loop
Gas & Alcohol - Gear & P/N should be set to 1 instead of 10?

Thanks,
Gerry
I'm finding paragraph #4 confusing. My values are 10.0 as shown in the examples for tables Gas (Gear), Gas(P/N) and both alchohol tables as well. Do I set those to 1.0?

Also, it says there are 4 mode tables, but I see five. Airflow Gain, IVT Gain, Inj Temp Gain, AIR Gain (Gear), and AIR Gain (P/N).

Do I set ALL of these, along with EQ min to 0 Edit: I mean set to 1.0?

Thanks for all the help so far guys. Looks like I'm going to have time to make one pass at this, then will need to eval what I did and try again some other day. I thought I'd already be back posting results at this time, but I got a little sidetracked this morning.

Gerry Yes set all to 1.0 E.Q min will be at 1.0 as long as your logging at operating temp (which you should be).
you set EVERYTHING to 1.0 which would result in stoichX1.0
See the problem is in stock form its like this
(10x10x10x10x1.0x.10x1.05x1.05)xstoich=whatever lol
Most people want to know the answer now so its simpler when I state 1x1x1x1=1 lol which is why I just say set all of the multiplers to 1 rather than trying to back calculate everything.
Nother thing you could do is look at a, 06' TBSS file, same pcm as you guys but GM sets up the OL tables COMPLETELY different ie 1x1x1x1=1
Don't ask why they decided on a different(read more confusing) strategy on gto's in this area. Cool...thanks.
Setting them to 1 and going to fire her up.
Gerry
now do you change those values back to 10 after logging??
now do you change those values back to 10 after logging?? I believe the goal is to do all the dialing in, then copy the corrected VE table back to your original stock file...so those values will be back to what they were.
BTW, it is soooooooooooooo much easier to understand once you do it. Will update later, but I'm out of time for now. Got what appears to be a good log, good coverage (hilly roads FTW), and the adsments look similar to the original SWAG I made.
Thanks for the help everyone!
Gerry