I'm well out of warranty, and believe my differential is going out. It's either that or a wheel bearing. I've been trying to search to find options, but it seems like most everyone has either had theirs replaced under warranty, upgraded to some drag racing quality stuff, and I even saw one guy that broke his spider rebuilding it.
Since I've never cracked the seal on a diff, I would prefer to buy a whole unit and swap it out, but I cannot find a whole one priced on gmpartshouse.com or Difftechs. Spending a couple grand on racing components is not an option.
Any help on what to do? I guess I could attempt a rebuild, but I can't afford to have it down for a long period of time.
Thanks,
Gerry
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-...QQcmdZViewItem
But first... what makes you think its the diff or wheel bearing? What are the symptoms?
I would try changing the diff fluid first and see if it gets quiter. Dont forget to get the additive.
Thanks for the replies. I also would like to avoid a used part...while that would be the cheapest route, I might be bolting up the same problem.

I've had clunking and all kinds of noise since day one but NO whine. Tried Amsoil with no FM...quieted the growling in parking lots for a while, but then it kept coming back. I was going to switch to Torco, but the pinion seal failed at warranty end. At 37,000 miles the fluid was replace with stock...no idea if the dealership put FM in it or not. It did get rid of some of the clunking and growling, so I was going to order some Torco for it.

After letting the car sit for 4-5 days I drove it to work last week. When I left, I noticed nothing, but by the time I got to work, I noticed a hell of a whine that gets really bad around 45 all the way down to stop. So this has showed up all of a sudden and I'm suspecting an impending bearing failure.

As best as I can describe it is that it sounds like I put snow tires on the back...but not as loud as huge knobby tires...just similar. It sounds like exactly what others complain about and have it swapped out under warranty. I'm putting it up on a rack today to get an O2 bung installed, and will check the fluid, but the "all of a sudden" thing has me thinking bearing.

The only thing that happened on the way to work is that I pulled out onto a highway and tried to accelerate and had a little wheel hop. I don't think that has anything to do with it though...and I'm going to check everything tonight while she's raised.

I'll also try to get a recording of it, but my camera doesn't pick up sounds like that very well.

Edit: I'm at over 50,000 miles now.

Gerry
I have had tires so bad, that anyone would have sworn they were wheel bearings. The reason I sent you that carrier, is; if you can pick it up CHEAP then it might be worth putting it in, then rebuilding your original, so that you don't have any down time, and have your other refurbed.
If its a low drone, not a higher one (driveshaft spins faster than your wheels) then I'd actually rotate tires first...
Rebuild yours with a Kaaz and a major install kit. Kurt will help you.
I have had tires so bad, that anyone would have sworn they were wheel bearings. The reason I sent you that carrier, is; if you can pick it up CHEAP then it might be worth putting it in, then rebuilding your original, so that you don't have any down time, and have your other refurbed.
If its a low drone, not a higher one (driveshaft spins faster than your wheels) then I'd actually rotate tires first... I understand what you're saying, but wouldn't that noise have built up gradually? This was no noise whatsoever and at the end of a 35 mile trip to work it is there. My tires are noisy, but this is a different noise.
Bung install was cancelled for tonight. Again. So, I'm installing my harness. After I'm done with that, I'm going to check to see if I have full fluid in there and add some of my friction modifier I have left over. Since I'm ordering Torco for it anyway, at least that should tell me if fluid will make a difference. Otherwise, I'll risk throwig away that Torco.
Something will have to happen before I just swap it out though...I'll want to try to figure out if that's what it is. With end of the year stuff at work and Christmas coming, right now I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row for the inevitable.
I like the idea of swapping for a used and rebuilding mine though. On the way home too, I thought that I might see if I can get the kit and have someone local. I asked the guys at a speed shop by my house though, and they made it sound like they don't even think about rebuilding them...they send them somewhere to be done.
Gerry
Very true, I noticed it all at once because I was talking with someone in the car and had my radio off for once, but thats besides the point.
So theres no vibration or anything associated with the noise? I'm beginning to think your carrier might not be the problem, but the gears. Maybe your pinion came loose or they reused a crush collar or something when the changed the seal. The only time that should slip would be in a turn, if youre in a straight section of road, does it still do it? Unless you wore the thing out because of low pressure in a back tire. I guess I just can't see that thing making that much noise ALL the time, in turns, yea, but on a straight cruise where both axles are spinning at the same speed??
Very true, I noticed it all at once because I was talking with someone in the car and had my radio off for once, but thats besides the point.

So theres no vibration or anything associated with the noise? I'm beginning to think your carrier might not be the problem, but the gears. Maybe your pinion came loose or they reused a crush collar or something when the changed the seal. The only time that should slip would be in a turn, if youre in a straight section of road, does it still do it? Unless you wore the thing out because of low pressure in a back tire. I guess I just can't see that thing making that much noise ALL the time, in turns, yea, but on a straight cruise where both axles are spinning at the same speed?? The noise only changegs with speed...not on an on-ramp or going around a corner. It does it all the time since starting it the other day. At higher speeds like 70-80 it almost isn't noticeable. I feel no vibration whatsoever. I do check tire pressure regularly, but haven't checked since this started.

Since this happened after letting it sit and the roads have gotten colder than they ever had been (with these tires), I almost thought it might be just the tires being loud on cold pavement. Since then, however, I've noticed it does it right away after pulling out of the garage...not a heated garage, but it is under my kitchen and living room, so it stays pretty warm. I also did a nice, smoky burnout to check the LSD and heat up the tires....didn't change anything. The burnout was normal.

I didn't take it down off the ramps last night, so no FM or sound clip. I'll update tonight or at the latest Friday. After that, I'll need to wait until after Christmas to mess with it. I'm the head chef at home, so I've got a couple days of cooking to do :D

Gerry

Edit: I also rarely run with the radio on, so I know all the noises in the car. My diff had a very, very, very slight whine before....this is a distinctive noise that started somewhere in my drive to work - 35 miles or so mostly interstate.
Moser 9"
That is all.
She has fluid...at a slight nose-down attitude, I could easily touch the fluid with my finger. Remind me to use latex gloves next time I do that. The fluid seemed like normal oil, but blackish....then again so was the very first change.
I added 1+ oz of friction modifier and drove it. It did not change the whine volume, frequency, or range. It DID elimitate the growling in parking lots. No idea if the Pontiac dealership put FM in it 15,000 miles ago when it was changed.
The tires were a couple psi low, and I aired them up...no change.
The roads are warm enough today to rule out cold tires.
Here's the sound...you WILL hear some tire noise, but it is an obvious 1:1 noise that we've all heard before. You will, however, be able to hear the noise I'm talking about even though my camera doesn't pick it up well. It is more pronounced than this sound clip portrays. It is the "whirring" sound.
http://www.carbondaleporkdistrict.co...ntialwhine.wma
Any thoughts? I can go ahead and throw some Torco in it, but I have a feeling it will be a waste. I'd think the FM would have at least changed the sound a bit if it were the fluid breaking down.
Gerry
check your parking brake adjustment.
I had noise and it was just that.
But man was I worried.
check your parking brake adjustment.
I had noise and it was just that.
But man was I worried. Would my parking brake start out adjusted properly, and go out of adjustment on a 35 mile interstate run?
This noise appeared suddenly...wasn't there when I left for work, and was there when I got off the interstate and hit the side streets 35 miles later.
Gerry
if the noise happed after the seal replacement, who ever did the job probably over or under torqued the pinion flange. i would go back and have them look at it. if they in fact did the job incorrectly, they should fix it up for you. and just because you are out of warranty doesn't mean they can't get it repaired.
difftechnics, have new stock pinions with gears and the differential kit available. If you're not going KAAZ go with that and some 3.91's....w00t w00t
I'm going to be doing the kaaz sooner than later after the HC get on there methinks :(
if the noise happed after the seal replacement, who ever did the job probably over or under torqued the pinion flange. i would go back and have them look at it. if they in fact did the job incorrectly, they should fix it up for you. and just because you are out of warranty doesn't mean they can't get it repaired. The seal was replaced about 15,000 miles ago. Would that make no noise for 15,000 miles, and then noise appear suddenly?
Not trying to be a jackoff guys...I'm just trying to figure out the likelyhood of these things suddenly causing a noise. With me being 15,000 miles past the pinion seal repair without a complaint, I wonder if they would even look at it. Maybe some of you who work at dealerships would know.
Gerry
if the noise happed after the seal replacement, who ever did the job probably over or under torqued the pinion flange. i would go back and have them look at it. if they in fact did the job incorrectly, they should fix it up for you. and just because you are out of warranty doesn't mean they can't get it repaired. Don't mean to be a jerk, but he said the dealer did the work under warranty. If his dealer is anything like the ones in my area CYA will kick in and they'll blame it on the owner. Most likely they will charge him for the diagnostic and seals when they put it back together. Not a very cost effective route...
difftechnics, have new stock pinions with gears and the differential kit available. If you're not going KAAZ go with that and some 3.91's....w00t w00t
I'm going to be doing the kaaz sooner than later after the HC get on there methinks :( I'd prefer to keep the stock gear ratio, and knowing the clutch is going too, I simply cannot afford the $$ for a huge upgrade at this point.
Gerry
you've got a pretty decent size cam though right? 3.91's would help a ton.
Anywhos you could just get a stock diff with the rebuild kit from diftechnics and roll.
you've got a pretty decent size cam though right? 3.91's would help a ton.
Anywhos you could just get a stock diff with the rebuild kit from diftechnics and roll. If I drag raced more, I'd think about 3.91's, but I don't. Besides...without DR's and some suspension work, I think those 3.91's will add to the traction problem I'm already having :D
And the StreetSweeper-HT isn't a huge cam, but I guess your description of "decent size" does fit. It is a 228-232|.612-.600 111. Man, it was so nice to just drive the car a bit this morning. This weather sucks.
Right now, it looks like my best option is just a rebuild kit, but I'm hoping to do enough troubleshooting to make damn sure that's what it is.
Gerry

I have one installed, but I was reading the manual for my wife's '07 Toyota and it stated that an owner may notice oil consumption among other things due to some oil being returned to the air intake system. That oil actually helps lubricate the valve guides. If that's true, then we are actually hurting our engines by not allowing the intake manifold be wet from oil at all. Any thoughts?
Sounds good. I'll be dumping a quart of oil in my intake every 3000 miles. Thanks Toyota!
Sounds like Toyota's bullshit way to explain why their engines consume oil. All of their nutswingers will eat it up though.
That's the best story I've heard yet.
Tell me if i am wrong but, the catch can catches only MOST of the oil, there is still a line coming from the valve cover to the MAF pipe in the curve...
Sounds good. I'll be dumping a quart of oil in my intake every 3000 miles. Thanks Toyota! Should I use a full syn oil for this procedure? Also, what oil wt. do you recommend?:stormtrooper:
I have one installed, but I was reading the manual for my wife's '07 Toyota and it stated that an owner may notice oil consumption among other things due to some oil being returned to the air intake system. That oil actually helps lubricate the valve guides. If that's true, then we are actually hurting our engines by not allowing the intake manifold be wet from oil at all. Any thoughts? How on earth is oil going to lube the guides going against vacuum and gravity.:huh:
The valve stem that is in the guide is exposed to intake air for a millisecond every other crankshaft revolution, if they're counting on that for lube they have problems.
Toyota CYA BS:boink:
sweet, took mine off and will be changing the oil in my intake every 3000 miles as well
Toyota BS. The reason to keep your valve guides "lubed" would be so they seal properly and keep oil OUT of the combustion chamber. If they really wanted to keep the valve guides lubed it would be much better to allow oil to flow in from the top of the head instead of through the intake tract :rolleyes:
At least GM's oil consumption excuse made a LITTLE bit of sense.
Just spray them with WD40 Like I do.
i had my valve guides removed to allow more play in the stem. frees up about 60+ rwhp and eliminates the need for the WD40 mod.
Does anyone make a deep-sump intake? I would like to run an extra quart or two of intake oil just for insurance.
LOL @ the replies in here :gr_jest:
I just took my intake off last night and was amazed at how much oil gets in there.
Save time and fill your car like a two stroke, 2 qts oil to one tank of gas.
BS.. GM's issue is different.. and a catch can will help.....
Save time and fill your car like a two stroke, 2 qts oil to one tank of gas. ive only been dumping 1.5 per tank, am i going to hurt anything ?
ive only been dumping 1.5 per tank, am i going to hurt anything ? If it's synthetic you're Ok.
Didn't Toyota have a horrible sludge problem with some of their engines?
If it's synthetic you're Ok. As long as its not royal purple.
I have to agree that the Toyota explanation is laughable. But, . . . . with the miniscule amount of oil being caught in these cans, as reported in some posts on other threads, I do question if this is just another "feel good" accessory. Especially if someone is merely adding a "can" without the separator sceens required to actually give a surface for the oil to accumulate and drop into the can during low vacuum situations. If not, those vapors are going right through that can and into the engine intake. How many of you have pulled your intake after installing a proper can to see how well the thing is working? Is it really doing it's job to stop those oil soaked intakes, or is it just giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling when you empty a couple teaspoons of oil every 3000 miles?
I believe I read somewhere in the owner's manual that these new 6.0 two stroke engines require some oil to mix in with the fuel.
Doesn't Toyota have a horrible sludge problem with some of their engines? Fixxed that for you.
:judge:
Valve covers have or should have baffles to stop most of the splashing oil from going through the PCV valve. If anyone was to remove these baffles you will notice an increase in oil going passed the PCV valve. As for the vapors being sucked into the intake, it's just hydrocarbons (unburned fuel), as well as carbon dioxide and water vapor. Gasoline is made up of carbon hydrogen and that's why gasoline engines are so dirty.
I have to agree that the Toyota explanation is laughable. But, . . . . with the miniscule amount of oil being caught in these cans, as reported in some posts on other threads, I do question if this is just another "feel good" accessory. Especially if someone is merely adding a "can" without the separator sceens required to actually give a surface for the oil to accumulate and drop into the can during low vacuum situations. If not, those vapors are going right through that can and into the engine intake. How many of you have pulled your intake after installing a proper can to see how well the thing is working? Is it really doing it's job to stop those oil soaked intakes, or is it just giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling when you empty a couple teaspoons of oil every 3000 miles? Yes I have. The TB would be coated and pooled with oil. After catch can it's dry with no oil residue or dirt stuck to anything. I've also have the front of my blower apart several times and it's clean.
Valve covers have or should have baffles to stop most of the splashing oil from going through the PCV valve. If anyone was to remove these baffles you will notice an increase in oil going passed the PCV valve. As for the vapors being sucked into the intake, it's just hydrocarbons (unburned fuel), as well as carbon dioxide and water vapor. Gasoline is made up of carbon hydrogen and that's why gasoline engines are so dirty. Incoming air is picked up underneath the upper intake manifold above the cam shaft.
The Bottom cover shows the filter that we have on GTO's.
Air is not SUCKED from the Valve Covers unless your using a Magnacharger.
I was using extra virgin olive oil in mine, but I am using a quart every 1800 miles. Would switching to synthetic olive oil help? Also, my TB has not needed to be cleaned again since my catch can went on at 18k miles, 78k now; just using a LOT of olive oil.
I have to agree that the Toyota explanation is laughable. But, . . . . with the miniscule amount of oil being caught in these cans, as reported in some posts on other threads, I do question if this is just another "feel good" accessory. Especially if someone is merely adding a "can" without the separator sceens required to actually give a surface for the oil to accumulate and drop into the can during low vacuum situations. If not, those vapors are going right through that can and into the engine intake. How many of you have pulled your intake after installing a proper can to see how well the thing is working? Is it really doing it's job to stop those oil soaked intakes, or is it just giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling when you empty a couple teaspoons of oil every 3000 miles? Ive had mine long enough to do 2 oil changes with it on. 1st oil change the EE can was 1/2 full, the 2nd was a little more than 1/3 full. I think it works.
Incoming air is picked up underneath the upper intake manifold above the cam shaft.
The Bottom cover shows the filter that we have on GTO's.
Air is not SUCKED from the Valve Covers unless your using a Magnacharger.
Most cars do use the valve covers though. the LS6 uses a new design.
Ok so lets be clear here. The GTO LS1 and LS2 uses the revised PVC system.
Corvettes switched around the 2000 year and F-body V8's may have as well.

Resolution of my suspension woes.
I found this site after searching for a resolution to the worn tire/vibration issue on my stock 17’s that has been posted here so many times. Like many other posts, my issue was vibration (front end shimmy) at 55-65 mph, along with a sudden wear (popped up in 5K miles) on the inside of my front tires. My car only had 15K miles and I noticed the wear after a 5K tire rotation. I pulled the fronts had very minor polish on the strut but decided to get some pedders from RockSand Racing anyway. I installed the strut bushings along with new radius rod bushings. BTW I had also tried all of the posted tricks in eliminating the vibration, multiple torque steps, wire brushing the hubs, and re-balance. Wire brush and torque steps would lessen the vibration for a little while but it would come back.
After replacing the bushings, I decided not to get an alignment, just to see if there was a difference after the pedders install. I rotated my rears to the front since there was no abnormal wear on them; sure enough in no time at all, I noticed the inside was starting to wear. I purchased a set of new tires (Continental Extreme Contact) and off to the alignment shop. I picked my car up and the alignment sheet showed that the toe was out both front and rear. I noticed on the drive home that my vibration had gone away, and I hadn’t re-torqued my lugs since the tire install. So right now with just over 1K miles on the new tires/alignment I am happy.
I suppose you tried the 50-75-100 torque method on the wheels? Sometimes they say that helps?
Thank you for choosing Rocksand Racing & Pedders. Welcome to the PEDDERS Nation!

I've searched all over the forum and found some information but it seems no one posted a resolution if any was achieved.
I was on my way to work this morning when I noticed the Traction Control had turned itself off. I was at a red light making a left hand turn. Light goes green and I accelerate and go left. Well while I was shifting to 3rd by the end of my turn I look down (thought I heard a beep) at the DIC and it showed trac off. It did not respond to the switch and wouldn't come back on until I turned it off and restarted the car.
I read through the searches and some possibilities are the MAF or result from a tune. My GTO is BONE STOCK, absolutely nothing, 32,000 miles as of today on the clock. Specs in SIG.
For those of you that this has happened to, did you find out what was wrong? I read that it happens numerous times and at random. I have an appointment tomorrow morning with the dealer and will bring it up with them as well.
TIA!
-John
Mine did it one time. I turned the car off and turned it back on and it hasnt happend since.
Hmmm...
I wonder why it does this. Anyone else?
perhaps a bad connection with the traction control box ? there is a wire harness there that may be going bad ? idk.
I've had this problem fixed before and it turned out to be the ABS/wheel speed sensors. They were bad causing an error and when the system senses an error it just turns off.
Thanks for the info. I'll be bringing it up at the dealer in the morning. I got a whole list of stuff for them to check.
Disconnecting the battery will always bring the 'trac off' light one cycle, until you restart again. This doesn't make any damn sense, but it's one of the many idiosyncrasies of the goat. Absolutely nothing wrong. Later.
JC
Here's a thread I posted recently on this subject-
http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200903
And also an update here-
http://www.ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203093
Now, since I posted that the problem has happened again, so although cleaning the MAF did seem to make it go away for a while and also made the car run noticeably better, it was not the total solution. I'd still like to know what it is so I can get rid of it permanently.
I do not think this is an ABS fault because a problem with a wheel sensor would set an ABS code and turn on the ABS light. Also in my case, and others I have seen posted, the T/C turns off while applying throttle under straight-line, steady-speed conditions.
And FYI there is no separate "traction control box", the T/C is an integral part of the other on-board systems.
If you are going to a dealer to try and get this resolved, it's very important to be able to actually demonstrate the problem for them. If you can't, and you just drop the car off with a report of the complaint, I can almost guarantee that you'll get it back with a "could not duplicate" report.
Anyway please post the outcome.
An abs fault will cause this sometimes.... which can be caused by a dirty maf sensor or the plug is not all the way in. Also check the abs connections.
Don't forget to mention the 15 second TC power feature to the dealer. Make sure all the sales guys are aware of it.
Went to the dealer and they found the cause to be the EBCM. Covered under warranty.
Thanks guys!!!